[qsymmachus]

Oberlin native here. I've been going to Gibson's since I was a kid. You're getting an incomplete picture of this sad drama and the Gibson family does not deserve your sympathy.

I'll preface by saying that no one in this story comes out looking good – certainly not the shoplifters, who expected get out of jail free cards despite being thieves; nor the college, whose greatest fear is offending its fragile student body, with predictable results like this.

What you're not going to read in this article or others like it is that the Gibsons aren't heroes either. There are two important details I'd bring to your attention:

1. Allyn Gibson, the man who tackled the shoplifters, really is a confirmed racist. I know this both first hand (we are peers), and from his many social media posts in which he casually rags on immigrants and black people (expect he identifies them using the n-word). The judge in this case declared that evidence inadmissible, for some reason.

2. The Gibsons are not a put-down, working class family who were nearly bankrupted by this protest. They're one of the wealthiest families in town, and were millionaires before this all happened. Gibson's Bakery is a hobby business; they turn a modest profit selling some baked goods and beer. Their actual livelihood comes from rent – they're the second largest landowners after the college, and own most of the commercial and residential rental property in town. The idea that they were impacted by this protest in any consequential way is frankly laughable to anyone who knows anything about them and their business. Once again, the judge declared evidence of their wealth to be inadmissible in court.

This doesn't absolve the college of blame. But this isn't the black-and-white, "David vs Goliath" story the media is making it out to be. Unfortunately this story just fits too neatly into a national narrative about "woke" politics going too far, so you're not going to see any nuance from the media.

[tptacek]

That evidence was likely inadmissable because the case wasn't about whether Gibson's was racist. It's difficult to defame someone by calling them "racist", which is to a large extent a subjective statement of opinion. Defamation must comprise false statements of fact. Oberlin can probably arrange a boycott of Gibson's owing to their racism. What they can't do is circulate flyers saying that Gibson's employees assaulted Oberlin students when that didn't happen.

Regardless, this is new information for me; thanks for posting it.

[puffoflogic]

You are obviously repeating hearsay libel, and thus demonstrating exactly why this ruling was just and necessary.

Of course people who have been libeled have bad reputations. That's the definition.

[tptacek]

Unless Allyn Gibson did not in fact post things to Facebook criticizing immigrants and Black folks, or the Gibson family does not in fact own a huge amount of real estate in town, there's no possibility of any of that comment being libelous. Anybody can call anybody racist any time: that's a statement of opinion, and opinions cannot be defamatory.

[fennecfoxy]

So Elon Musk calling that guy a pedophile was an opinion and therefore shouldn't have been considered defamatory?

Realistically any opinion based comment could be taken offence to and then whether it is defamatory or not depends on the evidence that individual has for having said opinion.

[mlrtime]

This is all circumstantial and the judge was correct to not admit.

[tptacek]

This is, like, fractally wrong. Circumstantial evidence is admissible, and that isn't the problem with this evidence.

[Balgair]

#2 seems to kinda square with the article that Lorna Gibson wrote here: https://www.commonsense.news/p/will-i-ever-see-the-36-millio...

As for #1, I'd need to the proof before removing skepticism.

Thanks for the input all the same!

[tptacek]

That article was, of course, deeply misleading and was more or less refuted days after it was published when Oberlin's appeals process concluded.

[Balgair]

I'm a bit confused here. How was it refuted? I'm not sure up to date on the whole thing and only really remember the substack article where she kinda admits that the store is run for sentimental reasons.

[tptacek]

It's an article about how Oberlin was refusing to pay a defamation award --- which it was not, it was simply exhausting its appeals --- which was followed almost immediately by Oberlin paying the defamation award.

[hilbert42]

Irrespective of rights and wrongs, how can Oberlin pay the amount of $36M and survive financially?

Parting with coffers to the tune of $36M would bankrupt many similar institutions.

[MrMember]

They have a billion dollar endowment. They'll be fine.

[midislack]

Now that they've won their suit, be careful calling them racist. Could sue you!