[Andrew_nenakhov]

This is a rather poor example. If there are multiple checkmates, humans are usually much more likely to see ones that require the least number of moves. Anyway if there are multiple checkmates, the game is irrecoverably lost by another player and it is easy to see on the board.

[myownpetard]

It's more complex than this.

The situation would be more like, there is a forced checkmate in 12 but it involves navigating a sharp position that is complex and any miscalculation could equalize the position.

On the other hand, you can simply exchange queens and rooks and have a clear winning endgame, but it will only result in a checkmate in 20 moves.

Almost any human would opt for the latter to avoid the risk. From the computer's perspective, there is no risk.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

I tend to analyse my games after playing them, and I must say that NOT ONCE in a few hundred of games played at my level (~2500+ on lichess rapid) I have seen a forced mate in 10+ moves other than in end-game when there are very few pieces on the board left. And when you see such long checkmate, usually it doesn't really matter, because by then all is already clear on the board.

So no, I stand by my point that a specific choice of one of multiple possible checkmates is quite a poor indicator of using a computer to calculate moves.

[myownpetard]

That's surprising to me especially for rapid but you're better than me (2000 lichess). Under time pressure, if I have a passed a or h pawn and can simply trade down and promote I will opt to do that rather than try to calculate a deep mating combination.

> other than in end-game

This is frequently where such scenarios occur. Many end games are difficult for humans to play with absolute precision, even seemingly simple ones like knight and bishop vs. king. But when there are fewer pieces on the board is exactly when computers are able to perform incredibly deep calculations.

A good example is the notorious 30 move forced mate that Caruana "missed" in game 6 of his world championship match with Magnus, which occurred with only 3 pieces and 3 pawns left on the board.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

To be honest, I'm lazy and rarely calculate more than a couple of turns: I just have a mental picture of what I want to achieve and seek ways to get there.

However, I do look up a post-game analysis, and if there are some mid-game deep checkmates, they show up in it, and it is extremely rare. The example you cite about Caruana/Carlsen game actually quite falls into the category of what I referred to as 'endgame mates' - and looking at it with a potentially cheating player in mind, such cases are rather irrelevant: a cheater will win a game or arrive to an overwhelmingly better position in the endgame so such extreme measures with 30+ precise move checkmates will not be necessary.

[underdeserver]

This is false. If there's a longer mate where every move from your opponent is forced (that is, only one more is legal or doesn't immediately lose) a human player will play that, as opposed to a shorter mate, in say 5 moves, where you have all sorts of different cases to calculate depending on what your opponent plays.

[Andrew_nenakhov]

You should be more careful with such statements. Boldly claiming that something is 'false' and backing it up with a rather vague hypotheticals does not make your statement look good, considering that said hypotheticals are not supported by my own chess playing experience. Of course, I don't claim to be a really strong player or something, and my lichess rapid rating is only ~2580, so maybe your expertize in these matters exceeds mine.

[georgiecasey]

That's a serious lichess rapid rating. Are you a titled player?

[Andrew_nenakhov]

I don't think so. I only started playing online a couple of years ago to relax, but ~30 years ago I used to go to chess school for a few years and had a First class sportsman degree [0], and even barely qualified for a Candidate for Master of Sport after a couple of local tournaments, but it wasn't awarded to me because I simply stopped appearing: it coincided with me losing interest in chess as time limits on that level grew to ~2+ hours and that was far too much for my jumpy ass. So I don't think that First class title is still active, as even the country that awarded it to me - USSR - doesn't exist any more.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Sports_Classification_...