[flumpcakes]

Anyone (anyone regardless of anything) who said they believed giving any medicine to a child without parental consent, even implying subterfuge, to me is extremely dangerous and I would pull my child out of any activity/school/club if there was someone there with those views in a responsible role of the children.

For that reason I think attitudes like this do more harm for the trans community than good. If I knew a trans person with these views I would do everything possible to avoid any contact with them and my children.

[pclmulqdq]

Many, many public schools in the US gave out COVID shots without parental consent. It also seems that several of them are encouraging kids to transition and hide it from their parents - a school in Alaska was recently sued for this.

[flumpcakes]

In the UK vaccinations are not mandatory. However, medical professionals can force treatment (or refuse treatment) based on the medical needs of the child. I don't have a problem with this as some parents kill their child from neglect. I am also not a doctor.

I can't really comment on the US. But thank you for the insight...

[pclmulqdq]

Also, if you are in the UK, you should note that "public schools" in the US are government-run schools. Our equivalent of your "public schools" are called "private schools" (EDIT: they are called "private schools" in the US only).

I think the solution of having the doctor manage this kind of thing is a lot better than what happens in the US.

[flumpcakes]

In the UK we would also call a public school a private school. Our free schools could be any number of things: a state school (secondary or primary), a college (usually 16-18 but a secondary (11-16) can also be a college), 6th form (16-18 only), grammar school (you have to pass exams to get into), high school (an americanism used in some places in the UK), academy (a secondary school with a different funding model from the government). All very confusing! I think the safest bet is to just call the free schools "secondary school" and the private schools private or public schools.

> I think the solution of having the doctor manage this kind of thing is a lot better than what happens in the US.

I think it is difficult as in the US medical care is mostly privatised.

You cannot sue a doctor in the UK, you would sue the trust (a collection of hospitals in a geographical area). So if a doctor needs to force treatment on a child and the parents refused it would go to a board who would approve or deny it. All children (and adults) will receive treatment for free, so there is also no gotchas about who is going to pay.

[antiufo]

Abortion is another example where minors are allowed to make decisions by themselves. Which is particularly important when you have politically heated topics like these, where the medical literature and your average parent often hold very different views.

[flumpcakes]

Yes, a medical abortion approved and administered by medical professionals.

I don't think the medical literature suggests taking homemade drugs from strangers on the internet.

[antiufo]

When the political reality of the place where you live influences that, I definitely support gray-market solutions. Just like https://abort.lol/ exists for abortion.

[tsimionescu]

You and people like you truly have no idea how much harm you are causing, do you? It is utterly irresponsible to encourage anyone, but a child more than anything, to take this type of medication without medical supervision. Consequences can be extraordinarily dire.

I will refrain from name-calling, but I have never been as angry or disgusted by anyone else on this site.

Edit: I want to make it clear that the dire consequences I'm talking about are NOT feminization/masculinization, nor even common complications of either such as infertility.

Taking uncontrolled doses of hormones, at irregular times, without any kind of tracking of the quantitative effects (blood tests to determine effective levels), especially for someone undergoing puberty, can easily lead to hormone overdoses that can seriously harm pretty much any organ in the body - including at the very least the heart, kidneys and liver. Testosterone and estrogen have many many effects in the body outside of determining sexual characteristics.

[wizofaus]

Your original post is now flagged/dead (seems hard to justify), so I'll respond here:

How do you make a judgment that some 12 yo kid is more at risk from having to wait for HRT approval due to not being able to find a sympathetic medical professional, vs the risk from being highly suggestible, unable to sensibly judge that HRT is the right solution and consequently causing permanent change to their bodies (including possible loss of fertility, and a number of other side-effects around blood clotting etc.) as they progress through puberty?