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by core-utility 1393 days ago
Toptal.com. Pain in the ass evaluation process, but it's worthwhile to get through.
4 comments

I interviewed there and they gave me a big project that would have taken several days to complete. Call me arrogant, but I couldn't work for free like that. Additionally all the interviewers were from extremely low cost of living countries, whereas I live in one of the highest cost of living areas in the US.

I had the impression that you have to bid yourself down to catch work over there due to that discrepancy. There are people in Eastern Europe more qualified than me, willing to work harder than me, at 1/3 the cost of me. Thus I preferred local contract hunting.

They give you a project that's supposed to take 8 hours, with a loose definition so you can take your own approach to it. Having been through the process, the project is definitely not something they'd take and use for themselves, it's a really basic test of aptitude.
Can confirm, currently using them as a backup (I managed to get a rate that was attractive enough, but I prefer working without intermediaries)
What sort of rates do you get?
I'm on the "DevOps" side which tends to demand less $ from what I hear, but I get between $90 and $130/hr for hourly gigs (my preference). There's also Part-Time and Full-Time gigs that guarantee 20 hours and 40 hours per week respectively.
Yeah nice. What was so painful about the application process?
It's almost like a full job interview process with many parts. Keeping details minimal because of NDA, I had 3 "rounds" including online assessment and video interviews.
Jeez.

Which networks still exist that do not require this large upfront timesuck (regardless of how well it may filter candidates)?

Agreed.

Of all the solutions our industry can provide, why cannot we not solve for if someone is performant in the industry?

Trades figures this out centuries ago.

However, our industry retains a hint of mystery. A magical sauce that cannot yet be taught.

But more importantly, a level of some mystery remains that cannot be detected without forcing the recruit through a rigorous course. Its biggest attrition being a the large potential for no return.

If you think that’s a large time sink, try business development. Seriously marketing yourself takes s lot of time.
I'd say all in all I put maybe 10 hours into it, which is far less than I do for a typical job interview prep. Given that this has brought me numerous clients, it was worth it for me.
Do you still have to go through interviews with clients? If so, how onerous are those?
I do, it really depends on the client. I like working with small businesses and most of those are just a quick conversation about what they're looking for.
Here's a detailed explanation for the application process: https://www.toptal.com/top-3-percent
Be prepared to have to do off-screen and later screen-shared, timed leetcode challenges. Fail one, it's an automatic disqualification.
I'm not sure where you got that info from, but unless you completely tank everything, there isn't an automatic disqualification. Even if you fail two out of three questions, you'll still get a chance to meet with the screener.
Source: myself.

I did all tests in half the required time, 100% success rate, had a bug during the interview with the screener, in the last of 5 overall I've done, I probably could've fixed it with 2 more minutes but no, I failed and was asked to practice leetcode puzzles and apply again one month later.

Yeah, I don't think I will.

The thing that bugs me the most is it was obvious the interviewer wasn't an engineer. There weren't able to tell how close I was to the solution. I dunno, that method might work in some cases, but I've been doing software engineering for 16 years. I guess I'm not good enough.

Also fuck having to solve puzzles with a timer with someone looking over your shoulder. I have done emergency "servers are on fire" maintenance in the middle of the night for big customers and it's less stressful than that.

Hmm, i just cbf with leetcode grinding again.

What about for a React/frontend role. Surely no leetcode

It's probably just "'a' + 1 + null , what's the return value?" :D
Thanks, I think I'll give up on my desire to have side gigs now.
For me the screen-shared leetcode/React challenge was stupid easy, I failed in the later take home project because I half assed it (no testing/CRUD validation)
What was the take home project about?
I heard a number of complains that Toptal is not worth the time investment anymore.

Anybody of that opinion here?

I'm billing $100+/hr with Toptal. I'm currently 0 hours available and they check on my availability every week with possible contracts.

Yes, the interview process is a bit long, but opportunities have been non-stop for several years in a row now.

Never an issue with pay, although it can border on 6 weeks in arrears due to billing cycles with the client and bi-weekly deposits from Toptal.

As a dev or more on the ops side? How long are the contracts? When you get a client, do they place you in a team with internals, or is there another setup? I guess toptal is like an intermediary, global scale, and they screen/test their freelancers.
Programmer.

It has varied from me being the only person working on it to full time work.

It's been easy enough that I've always taken 2, 20 hour/week jobs so that I don't lose all my employment at once when one ends. It's never been a problem picking up the next contract.

I've never worked with anyone else from Toptal, though I have been the replacement.

I haven't been using them for a while, but it's been non-stop inquiries from them, even though I've set my availability to 0hr/wk.

When I started the process years ago, I only saw bad things about Toptal. Went through anyways and have only good things to say. The most vocal are always the negative, and a lot of them were people who never got through the selection process. YMMV, but my experience is positive.