[samatman]

I'm not seeing the viable alternative to a clearly-stated policy on the duration of repair services.

Ok. I can imagine a world where I could bring in an Apple II from 1980 and get it serviced at a shiny glass Apple store. That would be pretty cool in fact, leaving aside the small but entirely real population of enthusiasts who would lose income, livelihood in some cases.

But it doesn't seem like a reasonable demand. At some point the specialist aftermarket takes over. Clearly stating when that will be in advance is the most one can ask for.

[Joeri]

They could give out an expiration date for repair services at the moment of purchase, instead of having what comes across as a yearly lottery for current owners.

[samatman]

It's nothing of the sort:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624

The relevant quote "Products are considered vintage when Apple stopped distributing them for sale more than 5 and less than 7 years ago".

"More than 5 and less than 7" means some time in the sixth year. It couldn't be more clear than it is without them putting a retirement party on the calendar.

Maybe they should?

Edit to add: of course you don't want to know how long the device will be supported, to the day, because this policy gives a minimum of the sixth year after the date of purchase, and if they sell it for longer, they'll repair it for longer as well.

[lstamour]

Not always. Almost not ever.

https://endoflife.date/iphone

I’m impressed Apple supports iPhones for 7 years from when they went on sale, but 5 years from when they stopped selling them varies by product line.

On the Watch, it’s 3 years. It’s unfortunate because you could have bought a Series 3 this year and learned you will not get a software update for it ever again.

Where this 5-7 year legacy thing gets annoying is computer hardware - it used to be that you could bring in an Intel MacBook of any year and get it serviced, but at some point they cut costs and instituted this 5-7 year “legacy” policy, without actually specifically telling anyone any dates as to when their devices would or would not be serviced. The rule of thumb for computers is that if you can’t get OS updates, you’re probably not going to get spare parts, but that isn’t always the case either.

[plonk]

Mandate a reasonable support delay, beyond the 5-to-7-years that seems to be the gold standard today. A computer from 10 years ago can still do a lot of things.

[asdff]

2012 macbook pro user checking in. If it weren't possible to work on this computer myself, I wouldn't be able to use it anymore. It's been upgraded to 8gb of RAM then 16gb. It's been given an SSD. Various flex cables and the trackpad have been replaced. Battery has been replaced. All I do is use this thing for stackoverflow, email, and ssh, compute stuff happens on a server anyhow. As long as I can source parts off ebay, I don't see any reason why this thing can't make it to 20 and beyond.

[scarface74]

I’m not aware of any product that Apple stopped supporting as far as hardware repairs for less than 5 years.

[asdff]

Why can't they repair older computers? Car dealers do. You just might wait longer for parts. Apple should do this so users always get decent parts. Imagine how nice it would be if you did have an old Apple II and you could get it serviced just like you can get your 1980s honda serviced at the dealership today.

[Bud]

Do you want to pay 25% more for Apple products so they can afford to train hundreds of repair techs to repair 10-year-old stuff, and keep supply chains alive to keep supplying 10-year-old parts, or, apparently, by your standards, 45-year-old parts?

[lstamour]

Vehicle manufacturers don’t actually make all the spare parts, other firms find it worth it to do so for them. Similarly, I could buy some common parts for the 2014 Mac mini that was easy to service on Amazon, without waiting for Apple to return my call. The annoying part is that Apple uses security to sign and enforce their chips vs third-party replacements.

On top of that, some repairs are really cheap but require electrical work. For these, you could visit a specialist, just as not every shop or dealer will service every car.

The gotcha is that with Apple, you can only service it at Apple & friends, with Apple parts. While they enforce this, yes, they could indeed offer such a program, and it wouldn’t cost 25% more.

Training people every year on the newest models costs more than having folks who repaired the 2008, 2011, 2014 and 2016 models continue to do so, etc.

[Bud]

I grant some of these points, but:

1) You're citing the 2014 Mac mini because it's an outlier, and also old enough that some things which are integrated into the motherboard now (RAM, storage), weren't then. Coincidentally, these are the two most common reasons you'd ever want to open up and service or upgrade a Mac.

2) This isn't the auto industry; it's not as easy for third parties to make and stock these parts, and also, computers become obsolete long before cars do, for reasons that have nothing to do with repairability.

3) You cite Apple's security measures, but as you know, those only apply to a very small minority of the chips (and other parts) that are in the computer. And those security measures do provide a real benefit, much as right-to-repair advocates like to ignore or obscure or downplay this point. (Not saying you are doing this.)

[asdff]

If you can repair a modern mac, you can follow a guide to fix a 10 year old one just fine. It's just screws, flex cables, and glue in more recent models. The supply chains still exist though through third parties. I bought a flex cable on ebay for a 10 year old computer that was $7 from China.