[justapassenger]

We sell you super expensive product, charge everyone 30% tax for anything you buy on it, put health monitoring devices on you (that you pay for), have directly your credit cards in the wallet (including custom one from us) and in the end capture more data that any other ads giant now.

And we’ll use that for ads. But it’s fine. It’s locally so it’s fine and you are not a product. All because we convinced people using our deep pockets that they should only care if data is on servers?

[diminish]

> Apple is planning to expand its advertising business significantly by placing more ads directly on users' devices directly, Bloomberg reports. The expansion would include bringing ads to more of Apple's own apps on iPhones and iPads, including Apple Maps.

I smile remembering "if you don't pay you're the product" which apple lovers lobbied looking at G users, hinting they payment for extra margins will save them from being ad targeted.

But now:

- Paying won't save you from ads.

- You're paying but you're still the product

- And ultimately Apple also gets huge sums from Google, for selling their users.

[azemetre]

I never got the “if you don’t pay..” arguments, it seems like you pay and still become a product. What connected devices honestly don’t collect everything possible if you pay for it? I bought a kindle and listen to audible on my phone, now I get recommendations based on my listening on the kindle. Same for a Roku, same for a cable box, same for not trying to buy a smart tv or appliance, same for nearly everything…

Reminds me of a throwaway line on West World season 3, “… before the privacy laws...” like what is it going to take to stop this? Ad industry has been an absolute disaster for the human experience IMO.

[zikduruqe]

Remember a long time ago, you'd get cable TV to avoid ads that you see via OTA TV?

It's ads all the way down.

[diminish]

Exactly, that was my argument that if eyeballs exist, it will be monetized using ads.

[soundnote]

I chose the MS ecosystem over Google with similarish reasons. And now everything is dark patterns into Bing, the browser won't end to end encrypt things like synced browsing history, etc.

TVs are the same. Pay a pretty penny for a high end TV, hello, we'll still stuff this thing full of ads and tracking cookies.

I really, really wish companies would stop asking themselves "Why not both?"

[bayindirh]

I think they're just getting ready to compensate for the new EU law (Digital Markets). Nothing more, nothing less.

[MomoXenosaga]

To be fair to Apple this is how our capitalist society is set up.

Apple device owners are generally rich, young, impressionable and loose with their money. They are the holy grail for advertisers.

[s1k3s]

There is no competitor to their super expensive product.

[croes]

Of course there is. Apple advantage is it's closed system not the iPhone. If you only need to maintain compatibility to your own products it's easy.

If it wear MS not Apple they would already be fined for anti competitive behavior.

Where is the difference between MS bundling IE with Windows and Apple forcing Webkit in all iOS browsers?

[BbzzbB]

You mean Facebook which is today's scapegoat. They can't buy Beat Saber or Giphy.

Microsoft is buying the largest game developer for $70B without skipping a beat.

[metadat]

And every major tech firm buying up healthcare arms.

[croes]

As of today FB owns Giphy and Beat Saber

[BbzzbB]

UK courts are fighting them over Giphy. US FTC is fighting them over Beat Games (Beat Saber) and Within Unlimited (Supernatural).

I'm not saying FAAMGs should be able to spend hundreds of billions unchecked in consolidating M&A, but this contradiction when no one flinches at Microsoft buying Activision makes it pretty obvious, in my possibly mistaken opinion, that this is no objective process.

[Retric]

There isn’t much lock in with phones or tablets as people go back and forth between iOS and Android. Apple’s advantage is simply selling a compelling product with great advertising which is why they are so profitable.

I find it odd that people get so invested in Apple as a company, but while beating them head to head is difficult it’s also potentially extremely profitable.

[croes]

Buying all the apps is an additional factor to be considered.

>There is’t much lock in with phones or tablets as people go back and forth between iOS and Android.

It still complicated to transfer all data and settings from one Android phone to another Android phone. I highly doubt it's simpler to transfer all data from iOS to Android or vice versa

[Retric]

> It still complicated to transfer all data and settings from one Android phone to another Android phone.

Odd, it’s almost trivial to go from iPhone to iPhone, but I never had 2 Android phones in a row.

Anyway, despite it being a major revenue stream most people purchase minimal if any apps and of those many can make the swap. Money sinks like Clash of Clans generally let you transfer accounts between platforms to keep people hooked. And of course subscription like Disny+ are independent.

[matt123456789]

iOS doesn’t have 95% market share. Edit to clarify: Windows had a monopoly on the desktop market in a way that is different to regulators (I guess) from the Google-Apple duopoly of today’s mobile market.

[croes]

But back then you could install another web browser. On iOS it's more like another skin for Safari

[macintux]

> Where is the difference between MS bundling IE with Windows and Apple forcing Webkit in all iOS browsers?

Monopoly.

[koolba]

Putting aside the walled garden of iMessage, what’s so special about iPhones that you can’t do with any other expensive smartphone?

The average person is just checking email, taking pictures of their food, reading garbage news sites, and watching mindless fad videos.

[diffeomorphism]

> that you can’t do with any other expensive smartphone

There are two, again two platforms that matter for phones. That's it. "Well, it is not 1, so we can just twiddle our thumbs and ignore the problem" is not at all convincing. And then people get sidetracked with "but the term monopoly taken literally means...". Yes, nobody cares. Antitrust is explicitly not just about that.

[jakewins]

iPhones don’t have Samsung product managers.

When my $1000 Galaxy started waking me up with Samsung push notification ads I had not opted in to, I knew I was done with Android.

[LtWorf]

The mistake was getting samsung.

But yes it should be widely known that android on samsung isn't the same as android on nokia or motorola.

[tomjen3]

Your first sentence used "you". The second said "the average person".

That is two different statements. HN users are not Joe Average. Apart from working with the Apple Ecosystem, I cannot get enough privacy on Android. The new changes does not mean that Android is acceptable, it just means that the Iphone is also not acceptable, leaving me with zero acceptable smart phones.

[wiseowise]

> Putting aside the walled garden of iMessage, what’s so special about iPhones that you can’t do with any other expensive smartphone?

Integration with Apple ecosystem, properly designed OS and not mishmash of dozens visual styles.

[ssizn]

It doesn’t suck.

That’s basically the reason me and every iPhone owner I know buy one.

[ryanschneider]

> It doesn’t suck.

Yet. If iOS News app is any indication of how bad their ads will be then I think they really will be hurting themselves in the long term. My guess is there are many like myself who now use Apple products as the “least bad” option rather than truly liking them anymore, that sentiment will grow way faster when people start seeing ads in more places.

I’m one of those people where consistent keyboard shortcuts is the main sticky feature, but that only let’s me put up with so much.

[ssizn]

I agree. The iPhone is indeed not perfect, but Android makes me grow white hair. (I don’t use the news app though. Can’t say anything about it. If they start putting ads around the system I will think of alternatives.)

[soundnote]

An acquaintance bought one and sent it back within the day. iOS is apparently "the worst non-meme OS" they've used in a while.

[karaterobot]

> We sell you super expensive product, charge everyone 30% tax for anything you buy on it, put health monitoring devices on you (that you pay for), have directly your credit cards in the wallet (including custom one from us) and in the end capture more data that any other ads giant now.

I get what you're saying, but Apple didn't put a health monitoring device on you, or shove a credit card in your wallet. That was your choice, totally voluntary, and as a knowledgeable person you were to some degree aware that your data would be stored and processed as a result. You made a choice to trade privacy for whatever convenience you expected those products to provide you.

[simion314]

I would disagree with all the "you knew that Apple does this bad X,Y,W and Z before you bought the device". I am not an iOS user and for example I bought an Android Phone for my son and I had the surprise that it did not had Google Play on it and I could not install it (some Google shit was required for school).

The issue is that on the sell page or the produc box there is not a list like

1 this device does not support Google Pay or for Apple

WARNING , before you biu you MUST acknowledge

1 you can only use Safari with skins

2 you can't use apps we think are too mature, or too siple, or might use compete with us, or apps we just don't like

3 if you are in China we will send your data straight tot eh goverment

4 you will not be able to developer or install any app for your device unless we review and anyone your account.

5 apps that are on our store today might be removed tomorrow , or blocked to send you updates

6 ad blockers are more crippled then on other devices,

7 messaging with your Andoid friends will be crippled

8 we will scan your photos for bad images and report you to the police ------

100 ....

So it is FALSE that ALL users know ALL the downsides and ALL future downsides when buying a device.

If I am wrong and you can see this on the online electronic shops or real world shops I would like to see this , I never seen this warnings so far.