[powersnail]

As I age, I've learned to distinguish "not being excited" (languor) and "being tired" (exhaustion), which to my younger self felt like the same thing. The former is not always caused by a lack of energy, but also excessive idleness, especially if I'm doing things that requires attention but also isn't intellectually stimulating.

When the author refers to "normal tired" and "dead tired", I think that echoes with my two states. I don't quite think of them as existing on a scale, but the experiences sound similar.

Doing stimulating things (exercise, reading aloud, singing) can usually bring me out of the state of languor. Just getting that adrenaline rush is enough to jolt me back to life (and thus I don't think of it as recharging; more like a jump start).

If I'm exhausted, I can feel gravity in my joints, and I'll have to rest. Regular sleep, exercises, and generally keeping a good health is the only way I can combat exhaustion.

[rubicon33]

This hits the nail on the head for me. Interestingly, I only came to this realization later in life as well. I've always thought of myself as "tired" but the real problem is I require an exceptionally high stimulating environment to excite me out of langour.

Exercise. Video games. Occasionally (rarely?) an academic subject that I am good at and interests me can also elicit this excitement and energy.

But in general I go about life in a rather "depressed" mode. Most tasks are done not because I feel that little kick to do them, but because I know if I don't my life will be worse.

I often wish I was more naturally excited by things which are less stimulating. I waste a lot of time just satisfying that part of my brain that craves stimulation and novelty. It's really a shame, because I truly do wish I were spending that time on productive or meaningful pursuits.

I've wondered over the years why I'm this way, when I work among peers who seem to get stimulation from reading such arcane topics as linux kernel development.

I can only assume in my case the root cause is video games + the internet. I'm in my mid 30s and have had a video game in my hand since I was 5 or 6 (original game boy). If my spare time wasn't spent playing video games, it's spent on the lottery game of social media / the internet over the years. I'm only just starting to work on undoing the damage these mediums have done to my motivation and stimulation center. If I'm honest, part of me doubts I'll ever be able to be genuinely excited about some of the hard work that I wish I could be excited about, but the thought of living the rest of my life essentially a slave to stimulating media is a depressing thought. I want to create interesting things, which means I need to be genuinely excited to learn new subjects.

[jmfldn]

Sorry to hear. I think you're doing the right thing in trying to see if you can cope with lower stimulation gradually. Try lower stimulation hobbies, reading novels, going for long walks etc. Maybe you'll find that you can somewhat recondition yourself gradually. There really is a great joy in enjoying simple pleasures without distraction. Don't fret if you can't get there quickly or have a different baseline too, there's nothing wrong with being a certain way but, speaking from personal experience and general life experience, many of us seem addicted to things to one degree or another these days. Not least things involving screens.

Since you mentioned the word depressed, it can't do any harm to talk to a mental health professional too if you're concerned in any way about your emotional state. It may or may not be needed but that could also be a factor.

[rubicon33]

Thank you for the encouraging words.

> Maybe you'll find that you can somewhat recondition yourself gradually.

That's the goal. I intend to be patient with myself on this task and work on it over the course of the next few years. I have no doubt that it will take years to effect any kind of substantive change.

[moonshinefe]

This was an interesting post to me because I've never heard of that distinction, and I think I'm similar. I've often had issues with "being tired" but it's probably more accurately what you call languor. I'll have times when I'm bored throughout the day and sleepy but then a video game or stubborn coding problem will get me engaged and I'll suddenly spend hours and not feel tired at all while the time flies.

Likewise, I do find exercise helps when I do force myself to do it. The issue is often I have days where I struggle to motivate myself to do stimulating things, but perhaps that's another issue. Not really sure what could help there.

[asdfqwertzxcv]

When I hit the motivation plateau like you’re describing, simply going for a walk or going to the gym pulls me out of it rather quickly. By the time I’m done, I come back and am motivated to work on high-impact things. I’ve found that moving my body and taking a break from dicking around online, or doing low-quality “productive” tasks with little consequence is the key there.

[comboy]

These being tired and fighting exhaustion with exercise threads must be a dread to read for anybody who works hard physically.

But I'm in the same privileged or at least not working physically position and I found most correlation with number of tasks I'm focusing on.

If there are too many things at once or none of them stands out, I'm more likely to feel tired.

If I'm focusing on a specific thing associated with specific action with no other things on my mind, it seems to be getting done effortlessly with high energy state.

[klysm]

I feel like for me that’s because progress in one direction implies lack of progress in other directions of concern. That’s scales with the number of things you’re trying to get done.

That’s why I think long running work streams with focus are so important. Context switching has cost beyond just the startup and tear down.

[dancek]

Would we mental workers dread reading how physical workers fight exhaustion by doing crosswords?

[cannam]

I think you're right to distinguish between kinds of tiredness, rather than levels.

The article, good and thoughtful as it is, suggests that a dead-tired state is somehow just more tired than normally tired. But there is also a tiredness in which you are keen and ready and would be happy to get moving with something, but your mind and body are unable to do the real work competently - the analysis or the lifting. This is like your exhaustion, without your languor.

I had this feeling a lot during 2020 and put it down to a justifiable mental response to the times (I hadn't had Covid, as far as I knew) until, slightly to my surprise, I was diagnosed with a vitamin B12 deficiency which turned out to explain pretty much the whole thing.

[xyzzy_plugh]

I could not relate less. I'm guessing you don't have ADHD?

I wish lack of excitement and being tired felt the way you describe, but if anything it's the opposite.

I get more dopamine from being exhausted physically but overextending myself than I do from being bored, much to my misery.

[300bps]

Extending your point, I think all of these subjective thought experiments on being tired are maybe useful for the person engaging in them.

People are so different for a myriad of ways that I don’t see how many of these ideas are generalizable.

Even being the same person but having different sugar and caffeine habits can dramatically change your energy level throughout the day. Without caffeine and sugar I have steady level of energy throughout the day. With sugar and caffeine I have peaks and valleys. It’s why I haven’t had soda since 2013.

[lujim]

Also probably fair to include burnout, chronic-fatigue/post-viral/long-covid, moderate to clinical depression, anhedonia, cardiac problems, auto immune diseases. Tired and fatigued are also super different. Sleepy vs tired, wired, and lacking the capacity to physically function effectively.

Growth = stress + rest. When physical or mental stress outpace rest you will get tired. The intensity and duration being the big differentiator.

[koonsolo]

For me I describe it as laziness vs tiredness (my English is probably not that advanced ;)).

The difficultly is that in both states, you don't feel like doing anything.

If someone has a quick way to distinguish between lazy and tired, I would love to know.

[BeFlatXIII]

I have to agree. Exercise and music-making both reenergize me out of a state of mental exhaustion after work.

Physical exhaustion is different: its only cure is a nap.