[ad404b8a372f2b9]

I hope you are aware that "the cloud" is not some secret, mysterious piece of technology that the EU can't figure out. We have software engineers as well as data centers and EU-based cloud companies. Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S and the internet was invented here. Your arrogance is grating.

[chrisseaton]

> the internet was invented here

In Europe?

[lizardactivist]

They mean the WWW, which is really what the Internet has always been about. And yes, it was invented in Europe.

[kazinator]

The web browser which actually made the web usable and popularized it was Mosaic.

"Mosaic was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) at the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign beginning in late 1992." -- Wikipedia

Other than Linux's European origin, Europe has not produced any viable operating system or browser. It continues to rely on key software of American origin, like the rest of the world.

[ElemenoPicuares]

This is one of those "pizza was invented in New York City" arguments. Popularized and refined != invent.

The Brit Tim Berners-Lee designed the architecture, wrote the first browser and web server, and wrote the first HTML spec at CERN around 1989. Mosaic was released in like 1993 after Berners-Lee released his specs and source.

To claim the internet was invented in Europe is equally absurd.

[chrisseaton]

> which is really what the Internet has always been about

Internet created 1983. WWW created 1989.

[ad404b8a372f2b9]

Well the Web if you prefer.

[chrisseaton]

They're two different things. The Internet was invented in the US. I'm European as well, but not sure why you'd need to overreach to claim we invented the Internet.

[kazen44]

packet based networking was invented in the US...

The internet was created by meshing many different networks together (mostly ARPANET and SFNET).

Networks which now form the backbone of the internet also existed in europe at the time, mainly in britain and france.

[ad404b8a372f2b9]

Yes we are all aware they are different things, I made a semantic leap because the terms are used interchangeably in common parlance. I should have known a technical forum would take me up on that.

[mgraczyk]

Right, and the goal of this sort of ruling is to make sure that those EU-based engineers have work and get paid. It has nothing to do with consumer protection or privacy. If it did, EU companies that have servers in the US would be banned from processing EU user data for the exact reason spelled out in this ruling.

[jtwaleson]

I'm European and I'll happily admit there is no EU alternative to AWS, GCP, Azure. The breadth of services _on_, and the amount of engineers able to work _with_ these platforms is incredible and can't be beat by the likes of Hetzner and OVH. We are so behind that we won't catch up. The arrogance is warranted in this case.

I like privacy, but the business person in me is very frustrated by these GDPR rulings as they make the life of European startups even harder than it already is.

[emptysongglass]

I mean I'm really enjoying Scaleway for all of the things I'd use AWS for: EKS, managed DBs, and cloud M1 Macs are all accounted for.

[jtwaleson]

But you realize that all tightly integrated high-level services like IAM, Kinesis, Lambda, DynamoDB, CloudWatch (just to name a few from AWS), make the cloud a joy to work with? AWS had VMs and Managed DBs in 2009(!).

[emptysongglass]

My personal experience with IAM is that it makes AWS awful to work with. I honestly wish it was replaced with an service far simpler in design. CloudWatch is similarly obtuse.

I think you have a point with Lambda though I don't use serverless much. How does Knative compare?

[jtwaleson]

I personally have no experience with Knative. In my view, you open up a different can of worms by dragging in k8s. Either do everything natively on your cloud provider or go all-in with k8s.

[lispm]

Lidl: https://www.stackit.de/en/

[jtwaleson]

Are you joking? The products page is laughable compared to the big cloud providers. Hell, it has "We create custom-fit solutions" on the landing page. If anything screams non-cloud it's that.

[kazinator]

> Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S

Really? In some places in Europe, people were starting to get excited about dial-up BBSes in the mid nineties, a decade after they were on their way out in North America.

In 1994 I was doing contract work in Vancouver on a website with paying subscribers.

[kazen44]

> Really? In some places in Europe, people were starting to get excited about dial-up BBSes in the mid nineties.

What is your point exactly? Half of europe was still transitioning to a market economy or in a (civil) war/conflict in the 90's.

I am also sure, that a lot of places in the US didn't have internet access in the 90's.

[kazinator]

> Half of europe was still transitioning to a market economy

Sure, but not, oh, Sweden.