[jjeaff]

White supremacists burned that bridge (or cross) long ago. The idea of being "proud" to be white only conjures up one thought for even the most lightly informed about our nation's history.

Usually, the point of identifying minority owned business is to allow people to perhaps help make up for historical (or even modern) oppression and help people from those groups overcome systemic issues that have likely made success more difficult for them. White people as a group have not been systemically oppressed.

[logicalmonster]

Conflating wanting the equal and non-divisive treatment for all with white supremacy is very ugly.

[jjeaff]

I think it's pretty ugly to get a head start in a race and then feign harm when anyone tries to boost up the people that got held up at the starting line so they can at least get within range of those that got the headstart.

[logicalmonster]

> I think it's pretty ugly to get a head start in a race and then feign harm when anyone tries to boost up the people that got held up at the starting line so they can at least get within range of those that got the headstart.

A gold star for your effort Jjeaff, but I'm still about 110% convinced that holding any group of people back for the sins of others is racist and morally wrong, not effective, counterproductive, and certainly no longer necessary.

[mbg721]

Why should I care what white-supremacists (other people who happen to have a similar skin color to mine) think? I have nothing of any substance in common with them.

[klipt]

Thing is, labeling all the minority owned businesses obviously makes it easy to also find white owned businesses by elimination.

[_-david-_]

How long do minority owned businesses get this benefit? 10 years? 50 years? 100?

[jjeaff]

I don't know, but we have what, 2 or 3 years so far? Is that just really getting to be too much for you already?

[_-david-_]

I'm not a fan of any racial discrimination, but if we are going to have it I would prefer to know the end date.

[nullfield]

Forever.

Once you’re “historically oppressed” or “disadvantaged”, that never goes away.

[_-david-_]

Since Google is not doing this with white owned businesses that means whites are now disadvantaged so white businesses should now get this forever?

[skyde]

> White people as a group have not been systemically oppressed.

you are either very bad at history or you are racist if you think white have never been a victim.

[hegemon8]

Even the Irish?

[AinderS]

> The idea of being "proud" to be white only conjures up one thought for even the most lightly informed about our nation's history.

Twice defending Vienna from Ottoman sieges? Retaking Spain from the Moors? The failed last stand at Constantinople before the city, and Byzantium itself, fell to Muslim conquerors? Ending the Barbary slave trade, that raided Europe for centuries, kidnapping two million slaves into the Muslim world? Holding off the Mongol invasion? Or maybe you mean inventing antibiotics and the tractor? Or germ theory and the transistor?

Of course you're right. The trans-Atlantic slave trade (ignore the Arab trans-Saharan slave trade) is the only thing "white pride" conjures up. The propaganda has been incredibly effective, erasing all white history from the public mind except that which can be used to shame them.

> White people as a group have not been systemically oppressed.

Yes, all the barely or not-at-all held-off invasions I listed aren't oppression. Nor was the blood tax much of eastern Europe had to pay the Ottomans [1], nor the Pontic genocide [2]. It was always all sunshine and rainbows for the white man, that has never faced an external threat in all of Europe's history.

You could say this is the founding ideal of the US ("founding" since 1903, when The New Colossus Poem was mounted on the Statue of Liberty). All the battles for freedom and survival are reduced to "storied pomp", and the Colossus of Rhodes, built to celebrate the defence of that city, is re-interpreted as an ode to violent conquest, "With conquering limbs astride from land to land;". Your country has asked you to believe that Europeans and European-Americans never faced an external threat, never had to fight for survival, never lost such a battle, and never contributed anything to the world but violent conquest.

And you obliged whole-heartedly obliged, because you are a good person.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

[OOD]

Obviously talking about white Americans, not Europeans. White Americans have never been systemically oppressed. Your reaction to the OP is a textbook case of white fragility [0].

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Fragility

[AinderS]

White Americans are descended from Europeans, and the post was talking about being proud to be white, not "white American". Though I don't see why oppression is a requirement for pride - does achievement not suffice?

And "white fragility" is simply a way to dismiss objections without addressing if they are factual. So in that sense, your use of the term is correct. Any resistance is "white fragility", and the only way to avoid that accusation is to submit to and agree with every attack against whites.

[OOD]

>White Americans are descended from Europeans, and the post was talking about being proud to be white

White Americans have never experienced oppression in America. Full stop. Europeans typically are not racialized and do not identify as white, instead as Italian, German, etc. This discussion is obviously about whites in the US.

>Though I don't see why oppression is a requirement for pride - does achievement not suffice?

It's not an achievement when you spent centuries conquering, colonizing, and extracting everything you can from BIPOCs. When you start out so far ahead in a race it's not an achievement when you win.

>And "white fragility" is simply a way to dismiss objections without addressing if they are factual.

I addressed them, you're not factual. White Americans recoil to the facts that they created and live in a society that upholds their supremacy.

[LunaSea]

> White Americans have never experienced oppression in America. Full stop. Europeans typically are not racialized and do not identify as white, instead as Italian, German, etc. This discussion is obviously about whites in the US.

Wow, this is an incredibly stupid comment.

If you simply looked at the history of Italian and Irish immigrants you would know so.

[jjeaff]

Italian and Irish were not considered "white" at the time. They were oppressed by the white majority. Lucky for them, after assimilation into American culture, they became impossible to distinguish from the white majority and so their persecution was relatively short lived.

[AinderS]

> Europeans typically are not racialized and do not identify as white, instead as Italian, German, etc.

This is obviously false, as shown by the different reactions in Europe to immigration from countries within Europe, to those outside of Europe.

[ChainOfFools]

If you are proud of your strengths you're compared to a violent conqueror. If you complain about unfair treatment or representation you're called fragile.

Nothing but heads-I-win-tails-you-lose bad faith arguments.