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I have met people multiple times who will call someone the opposite of whatever's on their pronoun pin (if they have one)

Even to cis people.

corrral 1429 days ago

> their pronoun pin

That's... a new one for me. Ah, they're all over Etsy—if anyone else was thrown by that, they're exactly what your first guess would be based on the name: a big round pin with your preferred pronouns printed on it. Interesting.

a1369209993 1429 days ago

> the opposite of whatever's on their pronoun pin

Well, yes, obviously? They have a pronoun pin. That's not a matter of disrespecting that person (as you note, we do it to everyone); it's a matter of disrespecting pronoun pins on principle.

mcguire 1429 days ago

"That's not a matter of disrespecting that person; it's a matter of disrespecting pronoun pins on principle."

Pardon me, but what? You expect the persons wearing the pin to not feel disrespected? Or that the pin will be emotionally damaged by the disrespect?

"Well how was I supposed to know your pronouns?"

"Well, pronoun pins are dumb"

Pick one.

Could you please specify the country, so I don't accidentally move there?

jmugan 1429 days ago

As a counterpoint, I live in Texas and I have never seen this.

It's a big place.

While I'll readily admit I don't like a lot of the political environment here, there are also a _lot_ of amazing people and places.

Thank you!

Texas unfortunately.

Doesn't happen all the time or everywhere, but I've seen people brag about doing this.

Thank you!

I find it personally helpful to get points of data like this.

Living in Switzerland, the cultural standards are sometimes astonishingly different between countries (e.g. I still regularly see job application forms that require both a headshot of the candidate and a date of birth).

mcguire 1429 days ago

Well, yeah, but that's so you don't hire someone unattractive, or worse the wrong kind of person.

Sometimes, when I can tell during a hiring process that it's just not working out, I do ask companies why they ask for a photo and a date of birth.

The answers generally are:

- "We've always done it this way" - Well sorry to hear that, but that's not a reason

- "Everybody does it this way" - Well, I'm a candidate and I can tell you that no, only 10% of companies are doing it this way

- "We want to get a first impression of the person before we invest time to look at them closer" - The first step in your application process is a 15min call with an HR person. Do you really need a step before that to reject someone based on age or ethnicity or gender?

So far, no one has reacted with any kind of understanding.

> I personally don't know any right-wingers that wouldn't call you by the name/gender that you request them to

I've never been faced with this problem personally, but what I can say that is that if you've known someone for any length of time say "Bill" and then one day "Bill" wants to be called "Jill" there is an ask that extends far beyond what is ordinarily reasonable.

That's why I think "deadnaming" is totally stupid. That name isn't dead. You just don't like/prefer it. But it was there and people know that name. They know you—and you just changed your mind. That's not their problem—that's yours.

Imagine I read your comment and didn't think of a trans person, but a Ms. Jones who had married a Mr. Smith and was now Mrs. Smith.

Is your opinion the same?

Yes.

Marriage is a union where two people make a lifelong commitment to each other: their identity is now united. This is a normal and good thing.

rhines 1429 days ago

While it's hard to shift, as long as you're making an effort it's fine. If you slip up from time to time, especially early on, that's understandable. But eventually you should learn it. You were willing to call them by what they asked to be called originally, rather than just calling them "big guy" or whatever, so I don't think it's unreasonable to respect their wishes on what they wish to be called in the future too.

There is a big difference giving someone a nickname vs. assenting to a reorientation of outward identity.

Someone wants a nick-name? Sure. No problem.

Someone who was a guy/gal and now claims to be something else? Especially if he/she is actively known in a space as something before and _then_ changes? That's a HUGE demand that honestly shouldn't be something anyone is comfortable asking others to do.

ROTMetro 1429 days ago

I do this too, but with people who change their phone number. No, that number still exists, and I associate it with them. They choose to change it? That's their problem.

Edit: Guess I should put a /s. Is there a tag for highly passive aggresive /s?

Perhaps it should be /sa should be for /[s]trawman [a]rgument.