Ask HN: How to avoid patent infringement/patent trolls?

[ditherblur]

I know, IANAL/get a lawyer but I'm a poor solo dev in the US trying to bootstrap, those overhead costs are just too much when talking to an IP attorney can go for $200+ an hour. It seems that all my peers never worry about patents but every time I'm on HN, I always read horror stories that leave me anxious. Most of the cases seem to have a good ending but they always seem to take years like that GNOME patent troll case.

What are the best practices to avoid patent infringement/being a target of a patent troll?

I been reading lots of NOLO law books, I got 10 books from the library right now about IP law, Patent, Copyright, how to do Legal Research and so on. I know there stuff like EFF https://www.eff.org to help. There's Google Patent or USPTO search to look for prior art and stuff from 20 years ago is expiring* (I know it's not that simple but just want to be brief).

But I just feel anxious about the whole thing, it really has made me stop coding/sharing code/building stuff. It's just so time consuming when the old me would just jump into a fresh project and just start building instead. I see my old friends from college blatantly copying UI designs when they don't realize most of them are under Design Patents and they're at risk. Maybe I'm being dramatic but it seems that patent trolls are on the rise against even small players, so many new software patents are being filed at a rate more than you can reasonable keep up with, and in the coming recession it might be even more profitable to be litigious against small time devs. It feels like a necessity to cover your bases while you can.

I know there's no way to be completely safe, but there must be a some approach to at least reduce the majority of your risk. To do things the right way. What should a dev do to reduce their risk? (Right now I'm reading into Single Member LLCs so that I could offset the risk to that in case of a lawsuit but I'm just learning stuff right now, everything is fuzzy and more complicated than I can try to describe in a few paragraphs).

"That reminds me to remark, in passing, that the very first official thing I did, in my administration-and it was on the first day of it, too-was to start a patent office; for I knew that a country without a patent office and good patent laws was just a crab, and couldn't travel any way but sideways or backways." —Mark Twain

It just feels like it'd be easier to just give up building software but it shouldn't feel like that, I thought the patent laws were to promote the drive to pursue innovation.

[anonymouse008]

[edit] either don’t look up anything, or look up everything and write in a notebook dated, signed, preferably with a notary, about why your approach is different.

Honestly with the way the USPTO goes about issuing patents makes everything super easy to refute as well as defend - it all comes down to court procedure: timing of motions, evidence and arguments. So, usually if you have the right funding (read: sales, not investment) you can find a lawyer who will construct a 112 / 115 defense with previously published works if you want to be safe; or can construct a “Teaches Against” defense to say your patent / process is unique.

Think of patents like sanctions - there’s usually ways to get what you want in all environments.

Not a lawyer just had to listen to them discuss my life’s work through robotic arguments.

[ditherblur]

I been reading into that, willful patent infringement vs unintentional. I been trying my best to get into the "why your approach is different" bucket but there's so much reading to do in the first place that it still feels risky. The first thing I want to do is get patent infringement insurance but like the issue with getting a lawyer, costs. It's too much money to bootstrap, especially with the looming recession. There's so many people just building projects in Show HN, there must be an approach they're doing beyond just winging it and hoping a lawsuit doesn't land in their inbox.

[anonymouse008]

You have a good head on your shoulders - don't over analyze it. Three months on IP work doesn't really matter if you never ship. If you're getting joy from the research, then continue - and maybe think about becoming a patent attorney - but if you want to build, build.

Good luck!

[ditherblur]

Thank you for the notary idea! I been keeping everything in a paper notebook but never thought about having it notarized. Going to try and find free notary places near me or pay for it seems a quick search shows you can even get something notarized for as little as $25 online. Have to read more into that (how to properly write such notes/docs), thank you again.

[ilamont]

when talking to an IP attorney can go for $200+ an hour.

It's at least 2x where I am (Boston area). I heard that some firms used to cut a deal for equity but I am not sure if that's still a thing.

I wouldn't stop creating things. It's possible to change something in response to a legal challenge.

[ditherblur]

I'm near NYC and I see rates going for $900/hr but I also saw a few near me going for $200 but quality would prolly vary a lot. I know this is why companies have whole IP departments because it's just cheaper to have them in house but still $200 is a lot for when you're bootstrapping and it could go for more important things like server costs to scale.

> I wouldn't stop creating things. It's possible to change something in response to a legal challenge.

Could you expand more on change? I feel like there's still a lot of risk since that's assuming they're nice enough to just send an angry email but maybe they decide to seek damages and so on where the whole bootstrapped business dies and all the effort goes down the drain but I'm almost prolly just overly anxious since the chances of that happening is lower.

[djks422]

The chances of you building something worth suing is probably small, so don’t worry about it for now. You’re probably better off spending time choosing the color of your new Ferrari (paid for by your new startup) than worrying about how someone is going to sue you.

[ditherblur]

"An Ounce of Prevention Is Worth A Pound of Cure."

That's what I used to think but post like this make me feel otherwise. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27579693

(OP in that post was "a one person company")