[DSingularity]

It doesn’t take much scrutinization to understand the underlying motivations of those who speak nostalgically of the rule of pro-western dictatorships. They come from families which used to profit from the theft of the colonized lands and were forced to flee (with whatever they managed to steal) once said lands were liberated.

The westener who defends such rule are racists unable to grant the oriental people the right to live and organize in a manner of their choosing. It is a “the-white man’s burden” and into the “heart of darkness” brand of racism which justifies itself by painting the East as backwards. But why is the East backwards? Is it because the East does not buy up the hedonistic materialism that the West has always been peddling as “liberalism” and instead prefers its own culture?

So ironic that the first intervention to claim a “public place for women” is one which paints the destruction of brothels negatively as a consequence of the religious gaining too much power. Is there any doubt that those who are claiming to be “enlightened” truly prefer a world where people in general — and women especially —remain objects of sexual desire which are used to herd people through endless cycles of aesthetically-driven consumerism?

[api]

It's possible (as a Westerner) to disapprove of totalitarian theocracy such as what exists now in Iran while simultaneously not believing it would be a good idea to interfere, especially militarily or through illegal covert action.

The West has deeply undermined itself with this interference. Quite a few people around the world actually did want what the West had to offer until the bombs and coups came and pushed them into the arms of domestic totalitarians.

All you have to do is turn it around. Imagine if the USA had a brutal dictatorship and China invaded us to "fix" it. How well do you think that would go over?

Edit: Sanctions are a little better but grossly over-used. I think they should be reserved for cases of violation of international law, such as Russia invading Ukraine, to exact a financial penalty for that. Otherwise sanctions tend to just harm the average people of a country. The Iranian dictators and mullahs are rich. It's the people who feel the sanctions. If anything sanctions make it harder for the people to organize any alternative to their current government by keeping them in brutal poverty.

Also to really understand how the West fucked up Iran you have to go back to before the Shah when the bogie man of communism was used as an excuse to intervene the first time. Read up on that history.

[barry-cotter]

> The westener who defends such rule are racists unable to grant the oriental people the right to live and organize in a manner of their choosing.

Now, now, some hold democracy in contempt generally, not just for foreigners. Others believe that people have a right to live and organise in a manner of their choosing, not that they must be governed in a manner pleasing to Westerners.

[pphysch]

> Others believe that people have a right to live and organise in a manner of their choosing

"I hate the government, not the people" is a thinly-veiled neocolonial trope when applied to sovereign nations like Iran. It translates to "I don't like it when those people govern themselves".

[usrusr]

Possibly, but not necessarily. On the other side you have that pattern of "True, they are brutally oppressed, but that must be what they all want if the oppressor is of their own ethnicity, right?" It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about the form of government in a foreign country that isn't all positive.

[pphysch]

> True, they are brutally oppressed

What you deem oppression is entirely cultural. It's your choice to project that on others.

The Western liberal views the Iranian woman as oppressed because they can no longer freely sell their bodies.

The Iranian revolutionary may view the Western sex worker as oppressed because capitalism effectively forces them to sell their body to buy shelter and food. Or something about spiritual oppression. I don't really know, to be honest.

> It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about the form of government

About as fine as caring about what your neighbor is doing in their bedroom. Which is to say, pretty weird, albeit normalized in imperialist societies. It's literally none of your business.

[andrepd]

But they don't govern themselves, do they? There's no sense where you can say that the people of Iran are free to govern themselves and do so. You can hardly say that about western liberal democracies, let alone Iran.

[DSingularity]

And then when challenged on this they will say “no no, those countries are oppressing their people and limiting their freedom”.

Ignoring how those governments operate in an adversarial environment of nations where if you don’t sell out your people you face endless assignation or coup plots by the Israeli Mossad or the American CIA.

People today don’t realize the extent of the present evil and the depth of the historical of the west. Take communist China. How can you ignore the fact that Britain was literally a cartel for opium sales in China? When the emperor banned opium to get ahead of the epidemic what did “Great” Britain do? Respect the sovereignty of the Chinese people?

[eternalban]

> It doesn’t take much scrutinization to understand the underlying motivations of those who speak nostalgically of the rule of pro-western dictatorships. They come from families which used to profit from the theft of the colonized lands and were forced to flee (with whatever they managed to steal) once said lands were liberated.

This is the IRI propaganda line that you are repeating and you are adding your own unique bits of outright 'errors'.

Let's start with the "colonized" lands. Iran was never colonized. It had a pseudo-feudal order, with landowning Iranian families and tenant peasants in villages. Of course this is entirely news to you (which makes you a useful unwitting IRI asset) but in the late 60s, one of the reasons the so-called Ayatollah Khomeni attacked the Shah was Land Reform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Revolution

The other reason was the evil Shah gave the vote to women, right to divorce, and all other necessary social support so that being 'cut off from family' did not determine a future outside of society.

And again as an evil man he removed the requirement to swear on the Quran for official procedures -- he said any divine book, Torah, Bible, Qur'an will do.

Clearly he was an evil dictator and had to go!

My family:

My father born to a provincial merchant, with no religious affiliation. He happened to get the top score for the national examination, after which he got his PhD, and later with two other engineers from Tehran university started their company that went on to build some of the major high-voltage infrastructure in Iran. He also taught in the engineering school. Clearly we are oppressors longing for the good old days when we could unjustly enjoy the fruits of our minds and abilities. (Btw, this same father of mine came to US starting at 0 again and again proved himself a man of distinguished ability. These people are Iran's loss.)

So yes, we miss the meritocracy, we miss the freedom, and not lastly I personally miss the aesthetics.

> ironic that the first intervention to claim a “public place for women”

Too bad you can't read this - try a translator (this is from this year):

بسم ا لله ا لر حمن ا لرحیم

قال رسول الله(ص):النّکاح، ُ سُنَّتی، فَمَنْ رَغِبَ عَنْ سُنّتى فَلَيسَ مِنّى.

آستان قدس رضوی جهت ارتقای فضای معنوی جامعهٔ و ایجاد شرایط مناسب روحی و آرامش خیال برای برادران زائری( خصوصا برادراني كه از كشورهاي اسلامي ديگر، عراق، سوریه، لبنان... آمده اند) که در مدت زیارت حرم مطهر امام هشتم از همسر خود دور می باشند اقدام به برگزاری مرکز صیغه های کوتاه مدت در جوار حرم رضوی نموده است. در این راستا از کلیهٔ خواهران باکره که سن آنها بین ۱۲ تا ۳۵ سال است دعوت به همکاری مینماید . هر یک از خواهران بر اساس قرارداد ۲ ساله ای که با آستان قدس رضوی منعقد مینمایند موظفند که ماهانه حد اقل ۲۵ روز به صیغه برادران زوار در آیند. مدت قرار داد جزو سابقه اشتغال متقاضی محسوب میگردد مدت هرصیغه از ۵ ساعت تا ۱۰ روز متغیر میباشد . مبلغ پرداختی بابت هر صیغه بدین شرح است:

صیغه های ۵ ساعته: مبلغ پانصد هزار تومان

صیغه های ۱ روزه صدو هفتاد و پنج هزار تومان؛ ٢ روزه سیصد هزار تومان؛ ٣ روزه چهارصد و پنجاه هزار تومان و از ۴ روز تا ۱۰ روز هفتصد هزار تومان تا یک میلیون خواهران باکره که برای اولین بار صیغه میشوند مبلغ ۱۰۰۰۰۰ تومان اضافه بابت برداشته شدن پردهٔ بکارت دریافت خواهند نمود.

بعد از انقضای قرارداد ۲ ساله در صورتی که سن خوهران به حد نصاب ۳۵ سال نرسیده باشد در صورت تمایل میتوانند در لیست انتظار صیغه های دایم قرار بگیرند. خوهران بالای۳۵ بدلیل بالا بودن سن لطفا ثبت نام نفرمایند. خواهران موظفند ۵ در صد از مبلغ دریافتی هر صیغه را به ضریح مطهر واریز نمایند. از کلیه خواهران علاقه مند در خواست میشود ۲ قطعه عکس تمام قد (با حجاب اسلامی) ، آخرین مدرک تحصیلی، وضعیت بکارت و گواهی سلامت کامل روانی و جسمانی از سازمان بهداشت شهرستان محل سکونت خود را به آدرس ذیل ارسال نمایند (برای خواهران کمتر از ۱۶ سال رضایت رسمی پدر یا جد پدری یا عمو الزامی میباشد)

آدرس: مشهد – بارگاه امام رضا -خیابان شهید نواب صفوی -صحن کوثر – دفتر امور صیغه

جهت اطلا عات بیشتر با تلفن [phone] حاج مجید علیزاده 09124251704 حاج علی قهرمانی تماس حاصل فرمائید و یا به نشریه استان قدس مراجعه نمایید.

اینم از مملکت اسلامی و فاحشه گری به ر وش اسلامی..! اگر ایرانی هستی کپی کن و به اشتراک بذار تا همه بفهمند که احمد علم الهدی وعواملش دارند به اسم دین ناموسمون رو به عربها هدیه میدهند!!!..

خواهشا این را نشان بدهید که عموم مردم ایران بدانند که چه کثافتکاری دارد انجام میشود در زیر پرده دین.... نشر دهید..

[eternalban]

Here's a partial translation as it is directly related to "prostitution" in Iran:

"The holy state of Razavi [i.e. Khorasan] in order to improve the spiritual atmosphere of the society and create suitable mental conditions and peace of mind for the pilgrim brothers (especially the brothers who came from other Islamic countries, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon...) who during the pilgrimage to the Holy Shrine of the 8th Imam are detached from their wives, has started organizing a center for short-term concubines [Sigheh marriage] near the Razavi shrine. In this regard, all virgin sisters between the ages of 12 and 35 are invited to cooperate."

Now you're likely curious as to the rates of this 'holy' prostitution system? Here you go:

صیغه های ۵ ساعته: مبلغ پانصد هزار توما

5 hour marriage: 500,000 Tomans.

صیغه های ۱ روزه صدو هفتاد و پنج هزار تومان

1 day marriage: 175,000 Tomans.

etc.

So how does this work?

"After the 2-year contract expires, if the sisters are not 35 years old, they can be on the waiting list for permanent concubines if they wish. Sisters over 35 please do not register due to their age. The sisters are obliged to deposit 5 percent of the received amount of each concubine to the holy shrine. All interested sisters are requested to send 2 full-length photos (with Islamic hijab), the latest academic degree, virginity status and a certificate of complete mental and physical health from the health organization of the city where they live to the address below (for sisters less than 16 years old, official consent of father or paternal grandfather or uncle is required)"

Anything to help our Muslim brothers from Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria, and soon comarades from Russia. Iranians should be delighted to be free from the yoke of the evil "dictator" Shah. This, after all, is clearly progress.

[DSingularity]

Nobody said this was progress. This is clearly disgusting.

[sleepyhead]

Your argument is oddly one-sided and does not include any of the issues with the Shah. At least try to look at it objectively. I understand you hate the current regime, we all do, but it seems you are unable to view history correctly because of it.

[eternalban]

I have looked at it objectively over the past 4 decades. I think deeply about Iran and what went wrong with Iran.

Character is destiny.

[DSingularity]

Funny you don’t consider the shah a neo-colonial ruler. I wonder, who returned the Shah to power?

Like I said: those nostalgic for the Shah almost always are of an elite class that profited from status quo.