[dijit]

> Their devotion to D&I

I worked for a competitor and this is single-handedly the most frustrating thing I had to deal with honestly.

Not because it’s not a noble objective, but because it was weaponised by a minority of people to control the studio in various ways, it was bullying in its purest form and extremely toxic - the environment felt really hostile, like saying something even moderately wrong would lead to an incursion. Saying anything against that behaviour meant you were somehow anti-feminist or misogynist or racist, even defending yourself. They were the arbiters of what D&I means and they can do no wrong.

To give you an example of what I mean: during the start of the pandemic the managing director of the studio said “we don’t know if this virus will be nothing, or the next Spanish flu, so we should take all necessary precaution in the worst case” - he was dragged publicly by our internal D&I delegation about the sheer racism of saying “Spanish” flu.

So, I treat strong D&I initiatives as a red flag, personally.

But I agree that EA is considered one of the better employers in the industry, even if the games are aggressively monetised, it seems that they try to take care of employees.

[_gabe_]

> but because it was weaponised by a minority of people to control the studio in various ways

I've also run into this. It can quite literally feel like I'm walking on eggshells. And it's not because I'm deeply racist or misogynistic (at least I think I'm not and I sure hope I'm not), but I literally just cannot voice any of my concern or dissent for any of my company's politically motivated initiatives. I would prefer my workplace to be devoid of political topics, and focused on meeting the business objectives, but that's not the reality.

So I agree. I also treat strong D&I initiatives as a red flag. I don't care what people's race, ethnicity, gender, or ideologies are. If you can do your job well and be a generally (we all have bad days) pleasant coworker, then awesome. If you act like a jerk, that's just acting like a jerk regardless of any immutable characteristics.

[Mezzie]

The problem with D&I initiatives is that, ironically, they end up spearheaded by extremely privileged people. Those people usually have one (or MAYBE 2) main axis/axes of marginalization (see: upper-middle class/well off white trans women, rich straight POC, etc.). They then proceed to speak for every member of group X and/or declare that their problems are the only ones that matter.

The other problem is that such initiatives are naturally going to tend towards rewarding/biasing towards visible and apparent differences. (Which is why race, sex, and gender take so much center stage). "Diversity" basically only means 'diversity we can see'/skindeep diversity.

[sangnoir]

To be purely pedantic: Spanish flu was only called that because Spain was the only large country reporting accurate infections and deaths. It ought to have been named American flu, since that's were it originated, but the US was intentionally underreporting (war time rules and all).

[dijit]

Yeah. That’s the history, and widely understood. At least in Europe (incl. UK)

Only a fool would think that it was because the Spanish we’re dirty or adversely affected.

[sangnoir]

Nationality-based idioms and names (and stereotypes in general) are on a subjective spectrum of offensiveness, IMO. "Irish exit" and "French disease" can be benign to one individual, but offensive to another.

[dijit]

I don't mean to be ignorant, but isn't it dangerous to assume offense in rote?

I am certainly not the first to inform you that "Git" is a slur in Britain, but we all commonly use a software for which it is named.

---

If I were to argue in defense of "Spanish Flu" in particular, it's because of two major factors:

1) Education is good enough that people do not associate it with spanish people, in fact "flu" is not a dirty disease either, other exonyms from the period were "the Russian Pest" (IE: pestis) which are of course inferring some level of uncleanliness.

2) Everyone knows the Spanish Flu killed millions, but they do not consider it the same as influenza. If you say "killed more than influenza" it does not invoke the desired idea in the reader.

Thus, controlling the speech limits our ability to effectively reason about such a pandemic. Influenza as it is known today is not the same as the Spanish Flu, there is some distinction that needs to be made.

[dang]

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32109896.)

[mywittyname]

> even if the games are aggressively monetised, it seems that they try to take care of employees.

These are probably related attributes. It's hard to take care of your employees when your company is operating game paycheck to game paycheck.

[KennyBlanken]

> So, I treat strong D&I initiatives as a red flag, personally.

Based off the general vibe of your comment, those companies don't want you. D&I driving away people who are made uncomfortable by D&I is working exactly as designed.

Somehow I have managed to be employed at a number of companies for decades without once been in fear about being bullied by false accusations of being misogynistic or racist. I've never seen another white person bullied under the pretense of having been racist or misogynistic.

I have, however, seen blatantly homophobic and racist behavior - some of it violent (in a professional workplace) and seen it covered up by management.

My guess is that you don't see 'light' racist, misogynistic, or homophobic behavior as problematic - "can't make a joke these days" - and therefore see the people who are disciplined for such behavior as "bullied."

[dijit]

Everything is contextual, there probably is racism in my company, somewhere. Calling it out when seen is something that has been pretty normal in my professional life.

Maybe it’s because my first CIO was gay, or that I was working in a metrosexual community.

Same with racism, I grew up shoulder to shoulder with south Asians and black people because that’s just how life is when you live in a multicultural society and they haven’t been adequately scapegoated.

I can’t convince you that you’re wrong about this, because you’re not in most circumstances; but good people, in my experience, do not do nothing in the face of bigotry in the workplace.

The difference, however, is that there is an unmitigated independent group who have decided what utopia means and can not care about the means to their end.

The unfortunate situation I’m in is that I support their cause, but they’re bringing the movement down.

Addendum: you’re also subtly implying the MD was somehow guilty of being against D&I, as he was dragged publicly, despite literally spearheading these initiatives and winning many awards for his work in promoting D&I in the industry and independently in the region. I find that kind of a reach honestly.

[jhhh]

> I've never seen another white person bullied under the pretense of having been racist or misogynistic.

And yet,

> My guess is that you don't see 'light' racist, misogynistic, or homophobic behavior as problematic