[sodality2]

"Cheap energy" is not the boon you think it is. You have to consider other factors - deregulating the food industry and getting rid of the FDA would save millions of taxpayer's money, would lower prices of the supply chain and let consumers pay significantly less for food, yet would have drastic side effects. Cheap energy that requires deregulation, more alarming and precarious climate effects, etc might not be a net positive.

Likewise, "not starting any new wars" can be perceived as bowing to foreign nations by anyone who wants to frame it negatively, or vice versa as an amazing success for diplomacy.

[0des]

> "not starting any new wars" can be perceived as bowing to foreign nations

This is an interesting take on peace in the middle east.

[sodality2]

Hey, I agree with you there, but my point is that any aspect of politics can (and will) be reframed by both sides to support their preconceived beliefs.

I've edited my comment to speak in a more neutral political tone.

[nicodjimenez]

The "both sides" idea is an illusion, the two sides disagree on everything but on one very important point there is no disagreement...

[sodality2]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I said that in any political situation, people tend to posit the evidence to support their own beliefs. It sounds like you're referring to false balance [0]. But that's not what I'm doing at all - I'm not posing any political beliefs as equally valid, I'm stating that everyone will change the parameters of an argument in order to solidify their beliefs.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_balance

[nicodjimenez]

<laughing emoji />

[kstrauser]

Thank you for saying so. Flooding the market with cheap, low-quality crude would drop the price of gasoline, but it'd be horrid for the environment.

[willcipriano]

Go to the gas station and tell the struggling families how good for the environment it is that they have to choose between essentials and going to work.

[tzs]

The current high gasoline prices have little to do with environmental regulation. They are up because the global price for crude oil is way up, due to production cuts that had nothing to do with environmental factors couple with a sharp increase in demand due to recovery from the pandemic.

First, in 2020 the US told Saudi Arabia that the US might cut weapons sales and military aid if the didn't cut production. In response to that OPEC agreed to a big cut production for 2 years.

Second, Russia invaded Ukraine which led to more disruptions in the global oil market.

Some like to try to blame it on the current US administration cancelling sales of new oil leases on Federal lands, but the oil companies already have a ton of existing oil leases on Federal lands that they can put into production but are choosing not to. They aren't choosing to because they know that the aforementioned reasons for the current high prices are temporary and putting those leases into production would just lead to a glut later and low prices, making it unlikely they would come out net positive on those leases.

I've also heard some try to blame it on cancelling Keystone XL, but Keystone XL would not have increased supply. It would have just made it cheaper for some Canadian producers to get their oil to refineries. Because the oil market is a global market, costs rising or falling for those Canadian produces wouldn't have a measurable affect on the market price of oil. It just would affect how much profit those producers could make on their oil.

To so called "war on oil" that people have been accusing anyone who tries to promote clean energy of since Obama was elected, if it even exists, is about the least effective war in the history of wars on things, as any examination of global oil production by year will show.

[kstrauser]

Yeah, that sucks. We've gotten ourselves into a bad situation where we're still dependent on a horrible form of energy for common needs. That doesn't change the fact that every gallon of gas we burn screws up the entire planet just a little bit more.

[willcipriano]

If anyone made a mess it isn't the single mom trying to feed her kids, she shouldn't be the one who is punished.

How about huge tax on international travel? On the order of say 500%, make it totally unaffordable. A trip to Europe produces far more carbon than a few years worth of trips to the grocery store and isn't at all necessary.

[kstrauser]

I mean, that seems like peak Big Government Overreach, but to each their own. Alternatively, people could quit buying wholly inappropriate vehicles. If your job requires you to carry lots of cargo around, then a pickup makes a lot of sense. If you drive a spotless Ram 2500 that never leaves the suburb, then I don't want to hear a damn thing about the price of gasoline.

And even if you personally don't drive an idiotically wasteful vehicle, a huge portion of Americans do, and their gas guzzlers drive up demand for the same fuel that you and I want to purchase, causing its price to skyrocket.

We don't all need to be driving something like a Nissan Versa, but a lot of people whose real requirements would be met perfectly by something like that are driving Yukons and whining about gas prices.

[willcipriano]

Those cars produce less carbon than your vacation halfway across the globe and aren't used purely for recreational purposes.

It seems like carbon really isn't your issue here.

[nicodjimenez]

If you really think the war on fossil fuels in the West is in the citizen's best interests, you are delusional.

In the West everything is a scam. Our health system is a scam, the military industrial complex is a scam, our education system is a scam, our currency is a scam, our media is a scam, the president is a scam. What makes you think that ANYTHING going on in the West ISN'T a scam?

[Izikiel43]

>> West

I think you meant USA

[nicodjimenez]

USA especially but also Western Europe.