[mike_pol]

I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. The latency you mention is really not there. Admittedly I could not service it if it broke but aren’t cars consumables now?

[Cthulhu_]

> aren’t cars consumables now?

Maybe if you're in the earning high-5 figures a year bracket in SF, but for regular people, a car is likely the most or second most expensive thing they own (second to a home). New cars is something for dual-earners and rich folk, for us regular people - and I am a high income earner - new cars, even on finance, is just not an option.

(I'm currently driving a used 2009 Ford Focus, <200K Km on the dial)

[davchana]

& to add, some of us rent home, so the car is literally anything where we have some equity (& rest the bank owns).

[krallja]

> high-5 figures a year bracket in SF

Lower class?

[Nullabillity]

In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?!

> I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind.

Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

[CraigJPerry]

>> A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

Which cars have those today or in the time-frame of the F-series BMWs from TFA?

Every fiat/chrysler gearbox is sloppy gooey junk thing, even their performance models have horrific manual gear shifts.

I'll cut to the chase instead of listing Ford, Peugeot, etc. etc.

The Porsche Cayman 982 manual shift feels awesome to use, it's a delight but that only opens up a new can of worms, the gear ratios are farrr too long (emissions targets i suppose), utterly ruining the experience. The PDK is the better choice (and it even has shorter ratios to boot!).

[foobarian]

I'm not a car nerd by far, and I never drove a manual shift before my Focus ST, but I am completely in love with it. I'm heartbroken that Ford stopped manufacturing those models.

Edit:

Reflecting more on what I like about it. I saw a number of articles or videos, like that 80s Porsche, where the shifter is wiggly or won't go into gear because of long linkages, or falls out of gear. The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear; I absolutely love this feeling. You just push the stick and it falls from 2nd to 3rd, for example. But if you're slowing down it feels like it's harder to put into 3rd but more easy to push it back up into 1st. And then the way the reverse gear is protected with a hefty spring-loaded ring is very nice. Finally, overall the shifter works smoothly, never gets stuck, seems to "know" the gear I want to go into, never falls out of gear... just lovely :-)

[tmh88j]

> The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear

I also have an ST. I highly suggest replacing the shifter with an aftermarket short throw shifter or the shifter bracket. I think you'll like it even more. I've owned several cars with manual transmissions, and one of my biggest complaints about the ST was the stock shifter. It doesn't struggle to get into gear, but it felt light, soft and mushy compared to my other cars. I replaced mine with a short throw from Steeda and it helped a lot, but still lacks the solid bolt-action rifle feeling I was used to.

The ST is a killer deal with serious performance for its price, but if you want a taste for what else is affordable out there and a step up try out a car with a Tremec TR6060 transmission[1]. They are one of the best manual transmissions on the market today and can take a beating. You should easily be able to find one on Turo if you live near any major city.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Ap...

[replygirl]

try splitting the difference with like a miata or a brz

[ry4nolson]

the BMW F-series M3/4 of the same time-frame have a manual gear shift option.

[gambiting]

>>Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

Yeah, no thanks. A good dual clutch automatic is my choice when it comes to actually driving in a sprited way.

But you know what? To each their own.

[Gordonjcp]

> Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

I learned to drive in manuals (because they're more common in the UK). I currently own two automatics and drive a variety of manuals, automatics and EVs that are kind of inherently "automatic".

I don't see any difference in "driving experience" between manual and automatic. What do *you* think the difference is?

[jjtheblunt]

Not what you were thinking, I guess, but I push-started my manual Saab and Honda many times, could my manual Mercedes but never needed to, which you can't do with an automatic.

[Gordonjcp]

You can if you get them moving fast enough, but it's terrible for the gearbox.

[jjtheblunt]

that would require some fast running while holding the door and steering wheel!

[bonestamp2]

> In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?

I don't think consumable is the right word, but I assume they meant in the sense that many cars are leased, so the drive never really owns a car -- they just "consume" cars as they move from lease to lease.