[razzimatazz]

You prompted me to think of fitness - as someone who has accumulated fitness I still feel like I am suffering a lot when I run, and I can take that suffering as a bit like winging it. The difference is I am suffering/winging it at a decent pace, I'm accustomed to what suffering/winging it feels like and know that I don't need to give up, I believe I can push on.

And indeed there is always more fitness that I need.

[mcbrit]

Running is not training. Running is a stimulus; training is the response of the body to the stimulus. You want to come up with an ideal set of stimuli to create an efficient training response.

Outside of a goal race, you shouldn't suffer when you run, especially 'a lot'. You are tearing down muscles and training energy systems that are inefficient.

Slow down. Walk. Fragment runs into multiple runs. Run doubles. You'll get faster, faster. Add volume at your new, sane pace and new, sane volume up to 40-60 miles/week.

Once you've achieved the slow end of 'adult fast', say sub-20m/40m/90m for 5k/10k/half, you can revisit suffering during training. You still probably shouldn't.

Of course if you want/like to suffer or can only run 4 times a week at peak heat during a Georgia summer then all of this is out the window.

[vibrolax]

Everything fell into place for me as a runner after I joined an adult running club whose coach used Jack Daniels "Running Formula" as the basis for setting each member's training intensities and durations. It largely removed the ability/willingness to suffer as a factor in reaching one's fitness potential.

[mythrwy]

Jack Daniels Running Formula sounds interesting maybe I could do that! (unless it's a different Jack Daniels).

[k__]

Interesting.

I'm not much into sport, but I had the impression that training was above the goal.

Like, you try to get into a situation that is harder than reality, so when you finally do the actual thing, it will be easier.

[derbOac]

It's complicated. What you suggest is true, but how you get to that point is different. The parent is also emphasizing high volume low intensity training which is part of many routines; high intensity interval training is another.

Often the strategy is to adopt both, until you gradually converge on some target (pace over distance). Where that target is is a different issue.

[hgomersall]

I'll add another relevant point that I think is attributable to Bradley Wiggins, but I can't find it now: [on time trials] You should always be asking yourself if you can keep going at this pace, and if the answer is anything other than "I don't know" you've already lost.

[totetsu]

Yes! and how much you come to resent chasing the idiot you who kept going at that pace and set your last pb.

[ip26]

Only if you keep pushing speed. At a given speed, the fitter you get the better you feel at that speed.

Plus, fresh of the couch everything hurts. Some fit person's lungs might be burning, their legs might feel heavy, but the not-fit person has three different cramps, blisters, achy feet, shoulder pain, toe pain, neck pain, lung pain... that gets better fairly quickly with training.

I feel the whole "it never hurts less you just get faster" viewpoint is demoralizing & misleading, which doesn't help when people are struggling to stay fit.