[DoesntMatter22]

Comparing Tesla to Ford is just comical. Tesla has a completely different technology they work on, and has a massive lead on Ford in EV's.

You don't even know what you are saying about Tesla. Take on more debt? Why would they do that? They have 17 billion dollars in cash on hand, and paid off a lot of their pre existing debt.

Even if they want to build a new gigafactory they don't need any more funding. They smartly sold more shares when the stock was insanely high and got a huge infusion.

[blitzar]

> They have 17 billion dollars in cash on hand, and paid off a lot of their pre existing debt.

Tesla total liabilities for the quarter ending March 31, 2022 were $31.091B, a 6.81% increase year-over-year.

So they may have paid off a lot of their pre existing debt and then went and borrowed even more money on different terms.

[hotpotamus]

I don't really see why the comparison is comical. I need a box with wheels to get me from place to place like many Americans. Right now I've got a manual 2016 Chevy Cruze because I got a really good deal on it. I like the idea of my next car being electric so I'd probably be cross shopping a Bolt with a Model 3, but that idea made a lot more sense when the 3 was supposed to be $30K. Now the Bolt is going to be something like $27K and the 3 is what - close to $60K? I'm sure the model 3 is faster, but I drive in traffic so I don't get to go fast anyway. If Ford makes an electric Fiesta for a reasonable price I'll throw that in the mix. I'll gladly look at the Asian makers too if they come up with something - the Ioniq looks nice by all accounts.

[DoesntMatter22]

Sure, but will Ford make money off of it? That's to be seen. Tesla is the Apple of car makers and they've grown aggressively. Ford is only going to be replacing existing cars with new electric cars, which are probably not going to be very profitable in the short term.

Meanwhile, Tesla is very profitable over the last few years and is very profitable on a per car basis. Not to mention the other tech that they are working on.

P/E is always going to be relative to growth. tons of companies have infinite P/E and are hemorrhaging money. Tesla is not.

[hotpotamus]

Well if I buy a Ford and not a Tesla, then Ford will presumably make some money from me and Tesla won't make any. I'll give it to Tesla (and Musk really) that they really mainstreamed the electric car by making it a luxury/halo type product, but it looks to me like they're losing a lot of their first-mover advantages now and they'll probably be losing some margin. Also their CEO went kinda nuts which didn't help the brand so much, but it seems like someone got him off twitter, so that might help too.

Hopefully Tesla can stay competitive and keep pushing the tech forward, but I think they've got some tough times ahead.

[panick21_]

> then Ford will presumably make some money from me

That's not at all certain when buying and EV.

> but it looks to me like they're losing a lot of their first-mover advantages now

That's what people have been saying since 2014 and Tesla has just continued to grow.

> and they'll probably be losing some margin

Given that they have improved prices quite a bit and still have lots of order backlog, I would suspect the opposite.

Maybe total operational margin will be down because of Berlin and Texas factories, but automotive margin is unlikely to go down.

[hotpotamus]

Just saw this post and it pisses me off. Not because I disagree - I truly don't know the future for Tesla and it's interesting, but what the hell is "improved prices" supposed to mean? Sure sounds like marketing bullshit for "increased" - I don't consider that an improvement.

[panick21_]

I have dyslexia, I wanted to write 'increased'.

[DoesntMatter22]

You are a on the low end of buyers, and there are a lot of them. But it's also not the most profitable segment. Tesla has been selling cars as fast as they can build them, until that changes I'm not going to fear another competitor.

Part of the reason Ford and others can even compete is that Tesla open sourced their patents. Ford and other's electric cars are being built on the house that Tesla built.

[ra7]

Hold on. No one is using Tesla's open patents because it would require them to open up all of their patents in return. What's your source Ford or others have used them?

[DoesntMatter22]

why would they have to open up all their patents in return? Tesla never named that as a stipulation. It's not like this is a GPL license

https://www.vennershipley.co.uk/insights-events/does-teslas-...

[hotpotamus]

Indeed, I have a hard time believing that $30K is the low end (I'm not doubting you on that - other people have said so too), but I suppose these are the times we live in. Either way I'm hoping to get a few more years and 10's of thousands of miles out of the current ride, so hopefully things will keep improving for when the time comes.

[anarticle]

So far, many of the box on wheels from other manufacturers have had recalls for blowing up people's houses.

Hyundai is the lucky one so far.