[ethbr0]

A quality that makes a film commercially successful is not automatically a quality which makes a film great art.

They're two independent concepts.

So to weight popular success in any sense when deciding artist merit is a mistake.

Popular is popular. Art is art. Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

[deltaonefour]

> A quality that makes a film commercially successful is not automatically a quality which makes a film great art.

Agreed? Why are you telling me something I completely agree with?

>Popular is popular. Art is art.

The problem here is that for people like you, most of the time:

"Popular is NOT art",

it's this elitist attitude that "art" is above what is "popular" that I hate. We divide wealth into classes and now we have to divide tastes. Looks like your part of the 1%.

>Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

May I ask why you decided to write some stuff in French for no fucking reason? Pretty low likelihood that I'm French or readers on HN are French so what's your goal here with putting some French here?

It's like a cartoon. You're not trying to sound elitist but your genius French kinda shows the world how elitist your headspace is. Wow French!, we're dealing with a true art critic here folks.

[mos_basik]

He's referring to a painting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images

I'm not art critic enough to know even half of what's been written about the meaning of this painting, but I know that it's considered significant, and I immediately recognized the reference.

Can't speak for him, but I guess the reason for including it may have been as an example of a work that was decidedly not Popular but (after much discussion) very much Art.

The other thing it could be used for is as a reminder to not mistake the map for the territory, but I don't see that fitting into this discussion so it's probably not that.

[ethbr0]

The Treachery of Images, as I understand it, is a visual/linguistic joke on the multiple definitions of being.

By distilling language down to a most basic, simplified statement, the artist (Magritte) is seducing the viewer into a first impression ("This is a pipe") and then contradicting it, on the basis that a picture of a pipe cannot be used for anything which a pipe can (e.g. smoking).

So yes, similar lines to the Borges map fable.

I included it because at a base level, parent seems to be stubborn about the definition of terms, on which it seemed to opine.

And PS, je ne parle pas français.

[deltaonefour]

See this here with more French when I obviously called you on it is called trolling.

Nobody look up that French or ask about it... it's a trap so he can lord it over you with an authoritative expose and explanation of his expansive knowledge of French wisdom while eating a croissant.

[thombat]

Try to stop assuming that everybody here shares your exact experiences and background. English has acquired many loan words and phrases from French and many people from British and Commonwealth backgrounds learned some French at school, to the extent that Franglais is both a joke in itself and used to make jokes. Saying "I don't speak French" in French is that sort of absurdist/wry joke, not the least because often that is the about only thing a traveller learns of a foreign tongue - how to apologise for not speaking it and to ask whether they speak English.

So although I'm a monoglot Kiwi I'm neither baffled nor insulted by a snippet of French, and although I know little of the history of art the fame of that surrealist painting precedes it. "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" has passed from being a painting to a concise reference to an idea, and like all jargon its succinctness is both useful for those familiar with the field and can be forbidding for those who don't.

[deltaonefour]

>He's referring to a painting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images

Most people don't know about this painting nor do most people know French... I'm sure you and him are aware of that.

It could be that whatever the painting represents fits his point. But you have to look deeper then that because he is fully aware that most people on this site don't know about that painting nor do they know French. So why post it at all? His intent definitely wasn't communicating anything understandable to anyone here.

I'm Chinese, so if quoted some famous quote from Confucius, and to top if off I wrote that quote in Chinese, then of course my intention isn't communication. I know most people on HN can't read Chinese, so then why would I include the quote?

I would have included it to make myself look intelligent, educated and well versed in Chinese philosophy. This is basically the gist of what's going on here.

The alternative is he just didn't have the brains to realize this is an English site and most people don't speak french nor do they have an understanding of French paintings.

I would say the former reason is much more likely then the later.

That's why I said it's almost like a cartoon. I'm talking about elitism in movie tastes and here someone tries to counter that claim with a carbon copy circus act of exactly the snobbery I'm talking about. I don't think he picked up on it, and hopefully this explanation helps you realize what I'm talking about.

[darkerside]

I've been following this thread, and you seem sincere and not trolling, so I will share with you that I think most people reading this thread can tell you are missing something big. It's OK not to understand everything, but to say you despise people who claim to understand something you don't us... actually despicable.

This site is for people to discuss and learn, and curiosity is basically a core value of it. It's OK to be young and immature if you are also curious.

BTW, if you share a Chinese saying that people can Google and be educated and delighted by, I think it would be welcomed. Even in Chinese.

[ethbr0]

> BTW, if you share a Chinese saying that people can Google and be educated and delighted by, I think it would be welcomed. Even in Chinese.

Exactly.

[deltaonefour]

Lol we both know the intention here was snobbery. Just reference the painting in English instead of communicating with terminology everyone has to Google.

[deltaonefour]

Bro. I'm older then you. Lol.

Your very narrow minded to assume that just because someone has a different opinion then you it's from a person younger then you.

In fact talking to someone in such a patronizing tone isnt itself exactly the overly polite tone dang seems to ask for from users on HN. I offer hard controversial opinions with no cushion, you treat me like a child lol. We are both bending the rules here.

If you ever raised a child past his teens, you will know treating a teen like a child, patronizing him is not only a surefire way of making that person your enemy, but it's also wrong and in itself very immature. Shit like "it's ok to be curious and immature when your young" is raw venom cleverly disguised as advice. I will tell you the truth. By saying shit like this you display both immaturity and you show that you are manipulative. Immaturity can be "fixed", manipulation cannot. Don't fuck with me bro.

>BTW, if you share a Chinese saying that people can Google and be educated and delighted by, I think it would be welcomed. Even in Chinese.

The proper way to do this would be to share it in English, and explain it. Thats proper communication. Leaving it in Chinese and expecting you to Google it is a very unnatural thing to do by someone who's intention is to communicate. So obviously there's a secondary intention here.

What this person is doing raw snobbery. You just happen to likely agree with this persons initial opinions on blade runner and the MCU, so during your little team up here your supporting his every move his every tactic, however obviously snobbish.

My tip for you is to always stay neutral. This is the internet so unique to the internet you can take a position where you Have no allies and have no enemies and only offer your raw opinions for everyone to agree and disagree with. At times everyone can disagree with you, at other times everyone agrees with you.

If you find that everyone is agreeing with you all the time... then you're just not a very original person and your not learning anything.

When I offer a controversial opinion occasionally I'm flipped. I'm changed. The other side convinces me and my entire outlook on a topic moves to another dimension. That's what I live for and that's why I offer hard hitting opinions. Because I want people to offer them back.

[darkerside]

I will actually apologize for being patronizing. I was annoyed by your tone, and after careful consideration, I hit enter on a post that I knew would annoy you back. I shouldn't have.

Hard and controversial opinions with no cushion are fun in person with a friend. That's not what this place is. We need more nuance in our discussions, not less. It's not as fun, but it is more constructive, and it helps us see other people's points of view instead of making it into a contest.

I will say, I have no idea how old you are, and you have no idea how old I am. But whether I am 15 or 50, my words speak for themselves, as do yours.

[EricE]

"I'm older then you."

But apparently not more mature.