[schnevets]

Before anyone writes a eulogy based on the headline, note the following:

So it’s sad, but also awesome in its own way, that 2022 will see the end of Zachtronics. Not because their publisher shuttered them, or because their venture capital funding ran out, or because Activision made them work on Call of Duty, or any other number of reasons (bankruptcy! scandal!) game developers usually close their doors.

No, Zachtronics is closing because...they want to.

“We’re wrapping things up!” Barth tells me, way more enthusiastically than you would normally expect under these circumstances. “Zachtronics will release Last Call BBS next month. We’re also working on a long-awaited solitaire collection that we’re hoping to have out by the end of the year. After that, the team will disband. We all have different ideas, interests, tolerances for risk, and so on, so we’re still figuring out what we want to do next.”

I play games too infrequently to invest the necessary bandwidth into a Zachtronic game, but I read some of ZACH-LIKE and always respected the philosophy. As long as no one is getting the rug pulled, this sounds like an awesome way to go and an awesome thing for the gaming industry. Hopefully this means more smart indie gems in the future.

[madrox]

I think my favorite line of the article was knowing when to quit is its own kind of skill.

Shuttering my startup last year, I felt this one. I think I quit six months later than I should have. Knowing when to quit is difficult...especially when you think others are depending on you. I applaud this team for leaning into that instinct.

[schnevets]

Without knowing what your startup did, non-"As a Service" game studios are an interesting animal in the world of software development because their products have a clear Release Date. To me, this sounds like the developers didn't want to do more cerebral, optimization puzzle boxes, so they decided to close up.

Like someone else mentioned, it's more like a band breaking up because artists no longer want to follow the framework and expectations that they have progressed into.

[madrox]

I absolutely agree, and I think even bands can feel the pressure to keep going if they think people count on it as a livelihood. Making a collective decision to move on is brave no matter the context.

[eru]

Yes, they have a clear release date. But eg Klei keeps sending out updates and bug fixes and improvements for Oxygen Not Included, and they are well received by the community.

But, of course, if Klei was stopping updates to Oxygen Not Included tomorrow, you could still play the game exactly as it is now, and people could also still make mods.

[yourad_io]

My favorite was this:

"A game without someone to play it is hardly a game, and it’s only because of our players that our games have meaning and a life of their own."

[ianai]

(Money works on a similar principle. Only has meaning when used in commerce.)

[eru]

Depends. If you have a fiduciary money, it has some meaning even when not used in commerce.

Fiduciary money is basically when your note say 'the issuer promises to give the bearer X on request', where X can be a cow or certain amount of gold or some other base currency.

Without commerce, this kind of money essentially degenerates into a voucher. But vouchers have some (minimal) meaning, even without being used in commerce.

[remram]

Redeeming that token for goods or services looks a lot like commerce.

[eru]

Well, if you widen your definition of commerce enough: yes.

But to be honest, money that changes hands often looks a lot more 'commerce-y' to me than money that just sits in a drawer until it is redeemed once.

[lukaslalinsky]

I think it would be fair to say that money is also a game. You need to play the game to survive in this world, but it's a game and there are many ways to play it.

[robbintt]

Getting within 6 months seems good to me.

[ehsankia]

It definitely seemed like they had done most variations of the idea, and they wanted to try something new. It is interesting that they don't want to try the new things under the Zachtronics names, but it also kinda makes sense, since their fan maybe has certain expectations from that brand? I definitely can relate to how making the same kind of game for 10 year can become tiring. The article also hints that some of them maybe want to try opportunities that has more room for growth than a small indie studio.

Definitely interested to see what they do in the future, the fact that it'll be under a different name doesn't really matter to me.

[ivanbakel]

>It is interesting that they don't want to try the new things under the Zachtronics names, but it also kinda makes sense, since their fan maybe has certain expectations from that brand?

Given that the studio is disbanding, I don't think it would make any sense for any of the former members to continue a new project under the Zachtronics name. They're not just continuing to work together on something else. To quote:

>"We all have different ideas, interests, tolerances for risk, and so on, so we’re still figuring out what we want to do next."

[Aeolun]

Sounds like everyone just grew up. Or at least, their lives went in different directions during the 10 years they were Zachtronics.

[retox]

That's how I read it as well. There are lots of electronic music artists that I enjoy that publish different styles of music under different monikers to avoid upsetting the fans of one style of music they produce. More invested fans may decide to check out releases under their other artist name and if it's not for them they know not to follow those releases.

For game developers it's probably more risky with platforms like Steam prominently showing the aggregate user reviews for a particular title. If they decide to go in a different direction they risk alienating their previous customers and giving the release a very negative rating when it could be a hit if it had a new name behind it.

Imagine if FROMSOFT (a renowned developer of tough 3rd person dungeon crawlers) decided to develop a straight chess game; it might be first in class and have absolutely everything a chess enjoyer might want, but I imagine it would be roundly derided if published under the FROMSOFT banner.

[isk517]

Yeah, reads more like a band splitting up than a company closing.

[schnevets]

Honestly, indie gaming would benefit from a better distinction between the company and the contributor (similar to bands and musicians or films and the director/producer/cinematographer). I know not everyone wants to self-promote, but I would love to see what games certain designers. contributed to before they had an opportunity to lead.

I hope every Zachtronics contributor can get the resources to make their next dream project, and the entire industry becomes a pinch more Zach-like.

[egypturnash]

So basically you want IMDB but for video games?

This exists to some degree but most of the examples I can think of are specifically about retro games, rather than any and all video games. Lemon64 and LemonAmiga exhaustively document who worked on what in the c64 and Amiga games scenes, for instance. MobyGames does cover modern games but a few checks of modern games sure don't have any credits beyond company. IMDB does cover games but also doesn't delve into any more detail than company.

[VectorLock]

Most games have some kind of Credits sequence, I'm surprised someone isn't feverishly documenting them in a wiki somewhere.

[olqwertybastard]

Moby Games seems to have something decent already. From my experience though, not all game companies are great about crediting all contributors.

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,4...

[boondaburrah]

Note that game credits sequences are sometimes just a list of who works at the company at the time of release, and not an actual reflection of who worked on the game.

This has resulted in a few problems where people get their name stripped off of a game they worked hard on but left the company prior to release etc. Also people may appear on the credits that were in fact in a different department on a different team and never touched the game.

[egypturnash]

From what I hear this is a problem in the movie industry as well. When you have a huge project that requires the work of hundreds of people spread across multiple years, and possibly multiple sub-contracting specialty companies, there's a lot of cracks for names to fall through.

[mysterydip]

Assuming the games are still for sale after they disband, who gets the money? Just the publisher?

[thombat]

Unless they signed bizarrely horrible contracts at least some of the staff will be getting residuals. By way of imperfect comparison, Ringo Starr's annual income of $20m doesn't come from doing the Xmas Special of "Thomas the Tank Engine"

[leoc]

Apple Records is still legally a going concern, though. (Though again there's the complicated situation with his songwriting royalties etc.)

[eru]

And in the same sense, Zachtronics can cease to exist as a studio, but they can keep around some legal entity that collects the royalties and distributes them to former contributors.

[mysterydip]

If that's the case then it makes sense. From the sound of it I thought they were dissolving, but it makes more sense to just cease operations.

[eru]

I'm just speculating.

But it would make sense to call what they are doing 'dissolving the studio', even if some legal entity (either the same or a successor) stays around.