[Gordonjcp]

> You see kind of a similar thing with Monsanto (now Bayer) where someone drops into a conversation about GM crops

But Monsanto are doing the same thing. You've been sold the story about "cow farts are killing the planet" and "being vegan is healthier", but where does all the plant-based food come from? GM soya by Monsanto. And to grow GM soya you need to blast every trace of life out of the soil with herbicides and pesticides from Monsanto, and you need to obliterate all the beasties that might attack it with insecticides from Monsanto.

Follow the money. Monsanto is paying people to tell you to buy their stuff because it's supposed to be good for the planet. It's not, it's good for Monsanto.

[mahogany]

Can you elaborate on how this theory would help Monsanto more than the status quo? Much more soy is processed into animal feed (~75%) than is eaten by humans directly as plant-based foods (~7%). Given that the soy -> animal -> human pipeline is less efficient calorically than soy -> human, it seems to me that the status quo sells more soy.

Also, this part:

> where does all the plant-based food come from? GM soya by Monsanto.

is plainly false. There are many more plant-based protein sources other than soy.

However, I do agree with you that relying heavily on Monsanto for (any of) these uses is not good, and overusing their products is likely damaging our soils and ecosystem.

[dionidium]

Clearly we're off topic now, but if you actually look at what farmers have to say about Monsanto almost all the complaints boil down to, "Monsanto has some rules we don't like, but what can we do? Their seeds produce the greatest yields, so we're forced to buy them!"

Obviously farmers wish they could get a better deal on their seeds, but nobody is forcing them to use Monsanto. They use Monsanto crops because the technology works.

[Gordonjcp]

You've got it backwards. Farmers want to make more money from what they grow, but supermarkets push the price down. Look at milk, for example - big supermarket chains pay farmers just barely above cost for milk at the farm gate and sell it at barely above cost as a kind of loss leader. What option do farmers have but to sell it, make fuck all off it, and try to work as cost-effectively as possible?

If you buy food from the supermarket, you're contributing to the decline of the planet's ecology, because it's the profitable thing to do.

[kragen]

This is a fully general criticism of competitive markets and is not limited to supermarkets. It applies with equal force to farmers, grain elevators, shippers, fertilizer makers, and (as you do note) the supermarkets' customers. You might argue that it applies with greater force to Monsanto (because they have government-granted monopolies on particular seeds) and to supermarket consumers (because they are not buying supplies for a product they are selling and can therefore choose to pay more).