[macinjosh]

Humans are so funny. Blaming the flawed tools we create for the problems caused by using them in all of our flawed manners.

Bitcoin is a tool, like any other. Tools can be used constructively or destructively. The ease and affordability of transferring remittances internationally is the single most useful case for Bitcoin. In those instances value is not kept in BTC except for the duration of the transfer so it is not as susceptible to the market fluctuations. On top of that it is much faster and sometimes cheaper even for more local transactions like invoices for freelancers to be done via BTC.

The banking systems have failed in a lot of ways related to the above use cases. In the US it can still take days for a check or transfer to clear. Red tape and fees abound when transferring large amounts between parties. PayPal will just shutoff your account because they don't want the risk. etc. etc.

In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers and less as a long-term store of value. Of course like any item of value there will always be the speculation side.

[piva00]

> In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers and less as a long-term store of value.

I have, in Sweden, the options of Swish and SEPA to transfer money. Swish is internal to Swedish residents, so to anyone who has Swish tied to their bank account I can instantly send money knowing their phone number.

With SEPA Instant Transfer I can send money anywhere in the EU, up to 100,000€, and it's guaranteed it takes less than 10 seconds.

These have been solved elsewhere, look inside the US who benefits from the fees charged to you, look who controls the lobbying power to keep these fees being charged to you. Boom, you now know that in the US the biggest limitation is always who has more money than you and control the policies you live under.

It's the same in other parts of the world, of course, but so much worse in the US...

[scotty79]

SEPA takes 10 seconds? My bank only guarantees it'll reach recipient in 24h and I have strong suspicion they only mean business days.

[piva00]

SEPA Instant Transfer takes 10 seconds, a normal SEPA Transfer takes 1 business day [0].

[0] https://www.paysera.com/v2/en/blog/what-is-sepa

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> SEPA takes 10 seconds?

Yep. I see similar (or lower) timings for 2 or 3 digit amounts transferred between accounts in the same country (UK).

[trashtester]

Absolutely correct. There are plenty of payment solutions like SEPA coming out in different markets, now. Money transfer is a known problem. These work brilliantly in contries that are not controlled by the most tyrannical and/or non-functional regimes, as long as you stay within the law. (Even China has such systems in Alipay and Wechat Pay)

So what crypto adds (beyond a hypothetical store of value) is the ability to keep your assets and transactins invisible (or nearly invisible) to the government.

[piva00]

> is the ability to keep your assets and transactins invisible (or nearly invisible) to the government.

It's only invisible if you got way out of the way of ergonomics to use cryptocurrencies and try to keep them into an anonymous wallet. The moment your wallet address is figured out all of your transfers in history are an open book, by definition of a public ledger.

So anonymity from government is definitely not a real feature of this usage...

[yeahsure]

Not all of us have the privilege of having been born un Sweden. Your comment reeks of privilege and dissociation with the rest of the world, where things work very differently.

[piva00]

I wasn't born in Sweden either. If it reeks of privilege is due to your own insecurities, I gave an example of something that already works and exists in the real world.

Just FYI: I come from Brazil where I lived for almost 3 decades, I grew up during hyperinflation, get off your high horse, mate.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

Dude, it's a real world example - a personal experience - of how this problem can we well solved, and of how crypto is not the solution. That's what it is. Sorry you don't like it, but that's not relevant. What you might do is try to bring those systems to where you are.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> The ease and affordability of transferring remittances internationally is the single most useful case for Bitcoin.

This is demonstratably false. The problem has been solved elsewhere in the world, much better than in the US, without any bitcoin or crypto at all.

> In the US it can still take days for a check or transfer to clear.

As noted, "in the US" is your problem. Also "hasty generalisation".

> In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers

wise.com is laughing. M-Pesa is laughing. EU SEPA is laughing.

[macinjosh]

> wise.com is laughing. M-Pesa is laughing. EU SEPA is laughing.

Not sure how SEPA helps an immigrant in the US trying to send money back home. Or a million other situations not involving places that have SEPA.

Your other options are greedy corporations. Wise wants $7 to transfer 1000 bucks to Europe. Bitcoin will continue working if corporations fail, change policies, arbitrarily decide not to do business with you, or jack up prices. Bitcoin is not subject to the whims of a single private organization.

Government sponsored options are also beholden to all sorts of invasive inspection as well. If you want to send more than $10k it can be a lot more work in some places.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> Or a million other situations not involving places that have SEPA.

And the way forward for those places is more like SEPA, than like bitcoin. That's the point. There exist better solutions to these than the US has, many commenters are oblivious, and these solutions don't look like Bitcoin.

[Nursie]

> In the US

Problem identified.

[macinjosh]

Hateful much? Sorry I was born here and not the super awesome perfect place you are from.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

A: "The USA's banking infrastructure lags global best practices, and many commenters here do not realise that, assuming that it must be the same or worse elsewhere, and that their proposed solutions or upgrades are relevant, when they are in fact often not. Proof by example of a better way forward exists."

B: "Why do you hate America!!"

This is of course, the kind of reasoned response that you typically get from someone with a strong logical argument.

[Nursie]

Not in the slightest. The US is a fine country. But it lags behind in banking and payments.

[Nursie]

Acrually I take this back, the US is not a fine country, it's an utter mess.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

And part of the problem is that whenever someone points out a way in which it could improve, especially with an proven example from the rest of the world, the mental shutters come crashing down, and it's assumed that you're "hateful". Like trying to help someone do the beneficial thing that other people do is an act of hate now? It makes sense only as pure projection.