[jerf]

Games constantly have this tension of 1. wanting to include story 2. but a truly interactive story is really freaking hard (no sarcasm), so 3. the story isn't interactive, which means that 4. the solved problem of telling non-interactive stories is cinema, so games use cinematic techniques.

The problem is that this strange attractor for games is constantly pulling the game into just being a movie, because the need to control things for the cinematic portion spreads. If I need you to be wearing a shirt with pockets for this cutscene, you can't shop for arbitrary clothes, or they just don't show up in a cutscene. If this character needs to be alive for a cutscene five hours in, you can't kill them now. If you can't kill them now, you must be denied the interactivity to do so. It is very difficult to confine this need for control in a story-heavy game because it naturally tends to spread out until everything is completely controlled for the benefit of the cinema and it is just a fancy movie.

I'm neither condemning nor praising this right now. Just describing.

"Walking simulators" solve the problem by essentially stripping you of all ability to change the environment except on very specific rails. This can support non-linear story telling, but not arbitrarily-changing stories. In the case of AAA games, a key indicator of this is your character suddenly holstering the weapon that is otherwise their constant companion with no player input, and since the only verb you meaningfully had to change the environment up to this point was "shoot", now you have no environment changing abilities, and the game need not explain why suddenly everyone and everything in the world is bulletproof since you simply can not fire.

That said, I think the case for calling them "not real games" has some virtue to it. It isn't like there's a bright shining line, but there's certainly "games" that are more interactive (in the limit, consider something like Minecraft) and there are games that are less interactive (in the limit, things that are essentially just choose your own adventure), and as is so often the case in practical philosophy, just because we can't draw a bright shining line doesn't mean we can't at least come close, or that the inability to draw a line means that we have to pretend there are no differences at all.

[wolverine876]

Thanks, that is enlightening analysis.

> a truly interactive story is really freaking hard

Why do you think that is? I am not ignorant of reasons and explanations, such as needing too much content, but what do you think are the fundamental reasons?

[lapetitejort]

You, the real human, cannot say whatever you want to the NPCs. Instead you either have to rely on a few scripted choices, or a silent character. Neither of those are very fun. Interactive also implies the ability to change outcomes. That is also difficult as every outcome requires writing, animating, etc. So games give the illusion of choice with a few well defined branches, then railroad you into a few endings.

Another approach is to not craft an explicit narrative. Just give a fleshed out, lived-in world and let the person explore. Let knickknacks, street trash, architecture, NPC behavior, etc tell the story. How can a game describe a dystopian world without an NPC saying "I sure do hate being oppressed!" and giving a questline for toppling the government? Maybe draconian transportation systems, NPCs eyeing the character if not dressed right, ugly architecture seeping into established spaces.

[jerf]

Yeah. Basically, imagine a world in which every single player of Final Fantasy X had a full DM behind them. Even if we stipulate the entire world prepped as a playground beforehand, who knows what you'd get up to in such a scenario? Who knows how radically divergent all our experiences would have been?

Such a thing is simply impossible today, and for the forseeable future. The closest you can get is AI dungeon, and IMHO and with all due respect to the creators, that's little more than a glimpse at the possible future, it is as far away from this reality as Pong is from FFX.