[gtvwill]

Lol depends what industry your in. Im a one man band msp so I literally set up these catch all employee tracking systems. Most folks don't realise they exist, even fewer use the data produced by the systems. Legit 90% of the time it's just kept in case of gov audit or something going pear shaped and we need proof it wasn't us.

Trust is all well and good, but trust ain't gonna pass an audit or get you out of trouble if shit hits the fan.

[Karellen]

> I literally set up these catch all employee tracking systems.

Does that bother you at all?

Not just about the employees you’re doing this to, but about being part of the system that normalises this kind of surveillance generally?

Is this really the kind of world you want to live in?

[gtvwill]

Nope. Look from a private perspective and up until a few years ago even from a business perspective (i was very idealistic when i started out) I am linux/foss/privacy advocate through and through.

But in the business realm, you have no privacy whilst your at work on work devices, the company owns that data not you. Want to send a message privately about something not work related. Fine, but use your own device. Man I spent like the first decade of my working career in all forms of laboring being exposed to OH&S violations of epic proportion which were unable to be prevented or retrospectively acted upon because no data was captured that proved it happened. Think stuff like bosses bi-passing fire suppression systems that prevented machine operation on drill rigs punching holes in ground littered with methane gas pockets just in order to keep the rig running at risk of all employees running it.

I'm sick of companies getting away with abuse of customers and employees. Most of this can be prevented or at least discouraged via tech based monitoring. If you want privacy.....keep it for your private life.

[zmmmmm]

> But in the business realm, you have no privacy whilst your at work on work devices, the company owns that data not you

This is really the problem in a nutshell.

Would you let the company install cameras in the bathroom to film you using the toilet? I am guessing probably not.

So why do you think you "have no privacy whilst at work". This is a fiction. Privacy is a human right if you're at work or not.

[Karellen]

> But in the business realm, you have no privacy whilst your at work on work devices,

Only because some people decided that should be so, and other people worked to ensure it happened. You state it like it's an immutable law of the universe, but it's a choice we collectively make, and a policy we enact. Or, a choice we passively allowed others to make for us, and a policy we allowed others to enact upon us.

[mise_en_place]

The great thing about capitalism and the free market is that you can choose not to enter into an agreement with a party if they run contrary to your ethics and morals.

[JaimeThompson]

This assumes you know that said party is doing such things, often one doesn't.

[jamiek88]

Yeah avoiding the only isp in my town ain’t happening.

How the free market will I get internet?

[_-david-_]

Some of the issues, depending on where you live, is that the government made agreements with ISPs to prevent competition in exchange for the ISPs paying for laying wires. If those agreements were not in place you might have additional choice.

[mise_en_place]

Starlink

[poleguards]

This is a fantasy version of capitalism that assumes perfectly symmetrical information. A huge percentage of the people being monitored have no clue it's going on.

[tpmx]

Small software companies doing innovative things. Any business area that might need an external audit is a severe red flag in this context. That also typically means it's less fun, IMO.

A software company running a Microsoft-based email/etc system is also a red flag in this context. I mean, why...

[gtvwill]

Eh, it's in healthcare. Specifically disability support. I get a kick out of building software that makes providing support for these folks that need it. It makes their lives better, helps them achieve their goals. But it's also a largely tax payer funded industry in my country so hence the audits. Which is ok, as a tax payer myself I'd be pretty gutted if we as a country weren't auditing companies getting our hard earned tax dollar especially if they are in a sector like healthcare.

[tpmx]

Yeah, makes total sense and I wouldn't want to work there.

[mise_en_place]

All businesses require an audit of some kind. How do you think due diligence works?

[tpmx]

That's an extremely strong statement that is obviously not true, except in the most weak and generic form.

How do you think reality works?

[mise_en_place]

Yeah if you want to defraud people, sure. No auditing required. Who's being dishonest here and making false statements? (Can you see the irony???)

[tpmx]

That's a false equivalency. You seem like you've never worked with honest people.

[mise_en_place]

You have to be careful is all I’m saying, on both sides (as an investor or entrepreneur). Also, many times audit also means documenting your systems, reducing bus factor and decreasing time spent for new employees during onboarding.

[Datenstrom]

What email services would not be a red flag?

[tpmx]

Fastmail :).