[smt88]

There are no conclusions to draw here. The study doesn't "show" anything -- it indicates a need for further research. I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism.

From their own article:

> He praises the study, which was difficult to perform because of the amount and quality of data, but adds that it is limited because it does not break the data down by key factors, such as the participants’ medical history. “These are very important questions we need answers to,” Putrino says. “We don’t have any really well constructed studies just yet.”

The study also doesn't seem to control for comorbid mental health issues. The pandemic caused a massive spike in anxiety and depression, which (by themselves or due to medications) can result in the same symptoms used to diagnose long Covid in this study: brain fog and fatigue.

There really is nothing to report here yet.

[johndfsgdgdfg]

The problem is we've set-up asymmetric incentive structure. Say, there are some uncertainties regarding the risk and aftermath of COVID. If you genuinely underestimate the risk, then you are a pro-grandma killer and one of the worst human beings in the world. But if you overplay the risk, then you are an amazing human being whose only flaw is caring too much about human lives. Unfortunately this becomes another 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf' story and also causes a lot of harm in the long run.

[smt88]

> If you genuinely underestimate the risk, then you are a pro-grandma killer and one of the worst human beings in the world.

I totally disagree with this. When omicron started spreading, a lot of scientists jumped to the conclusion that it was less lethal than previous variants. They were happy to share positive-sounding news, regardless of whether they turned out to be wrong. At the beginning, the evidence (from South Africa) was far from conclusive.

[native_samples]

Huh, that's the opposite of how I remember it. Where on earth did you see that?

I couldn't see my family for Christmas this year because they freaked out over Omicron and insisted that me and my girlfriend would have to quarantine for 10 days before being able to visit them. This was driven entirely by "scientists" jumping to conclusions that Omicron would be as deadly as Delta but much more infectious and demanding more lockdowns, quarantines etc. They had no scientific basis for this doom-mongering, which appeared to be driven purely by some strange ideological desire for more restrictions.

I told family at the time - this is crazy. All the evidence about Omicron says it's a mild cold. There is no evidence pointing to any other conclusion. The people who discovered it in South Africa are communicating clearly that there's no crisis. Public health scientists are lying, again, because they're claiming there's no data when I was reading about that supposedly non-existent data in the press just yesterday and so you shouldn't listen.

Well, they listened to the "scientists" and not me. For a few weeks, at least. February comes around, nothing about the virus has changed but they suddenly realize that it causes a mild cold and nobody cares. The Queen gets it aged 95 and it's on the front pages for about half a day. She doesn't even stop working. Then they want us to visit so we can do the celebrations we didn't do at Christmas.

So the scores are:

    South African doctors: 1
    native_samples: 1
    Public health: -a million, again.

The people from South Africa turned out to be completely correct.

[r00fus]

Was this study also with an average age of 71? (cohort was US veterans with 3 week vax interval. Also baseline mortality in the group was 1% over 6mo - definitely an older, vulnerable population).

So yeah, not a representative study at all.

And I'm someone who's somewhat concerned specifically about long covid.

[jrnichols]

> I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism.

I am too, but it is not surprising. It's getting them page views. We're also going to be seeing "long covid" articles for years to come as it's going to be a goldmine for research funding.

[smt88]

> It's getting them page views.

But why do they need page views??? It's not like they're going to go bankrupt if they lose advertising revenue. Their greatest asset is their brand name, and they're destroying it for... what?

It makes no sense.

[hda111]

What medications cause anxiety and depression?

[iamed2]

Medications for anxiety and depression can cause brain fog and fatigue.

[micromacrofoot]

In the past it's been anything from acne medications to birth control and even anti-depressants. Depression isn't an unusual side-effect at all.

[doubled112]

Acutane? I remember having a conversation with my doctor as a teenager about it, and even he wasn't sure about cause and effect.

Does the medication cause depression? Or was the person already depressed due to having acne so bad it needed medical treatment? Either direction seems reasonable to me.

That said, he was careful to who he handed it out to, and we decided against it.

[seizethegdgap]

Accutane can cause severe depression and suicidal thoughts, but not for everyone. It should definitely be a near-last resort when dealing with severe or cystic acne.

That being said, the before/after pictures that get posted in the accutane subreddit are mind blowing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Accutane/comments/hslnet/_/

[micromacrofoot]

yeah the big deal at the time was the 15 year old that tried to pull a mini 9/11, his mom sued the manufacturer of Acutane (later dropped) and it spooked a bunch of parents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_Cessna_172_crash?wp...

[swayvil]

Christ, you'd think that people might get the message that there's something deeply wrong when you get a feeling like that.

It's a testament to the power of post-structuralism or something.

[smt88]

> there's something deeply wrong when you get a feeling like that

Everyone knows that feeling depressed is deeply wrong.

Medications that can cause depression are often prescribed for serious illnesses, like debilitating mental illness. They don't always cause depression, and the small risk of temporary, treatable depression is determined by the doctor and patient to exceed the risk of the condition that's being treated.

[vorpalhex]

Not exactly a medication but alcohol for one.

But many other drugs can cause these sorts of symptoms too including anti-depressants paradoxically.

[havblue]

Do you mean a treatment for anxiety and depression or a cause?

“Here's to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.” -Homer Simpson

[vorpalhex]

Alcohol can definitely cause anxiety, and make anxiety worse.

I will also suggest alcohol can trigger depression - but that is a claim that is ripe for debate and not well accepted.

Alcohol can also "treat" (in the sense of suppressing symptoms) anxiety and depression, thus leading to a downward spiral since it tends to make these things worse, thus you get into the cycle of "Oh I'm feeling anxious, better have a beer - oh, now my anxiety is worse now that I have sobered up, better have more..."

[robonerd]

Alcohol objectively causes physiological CNS depression. Whether or not it necessarily causes the mood of depression or 'major depressive disorder' as diagnosed by clinical psychologists or psychiatrists is another matter.

[reportingsjr]

Birth control among many other medications.