[louissan]

it all depends ... once upon a time, WoW was a bit like that. XRoads wild PVP, free-for-all ambushes in the wilderness, a reasonably sized world (not too big but not too small). Back in 2004 it did convey a sense of relative immensity. Which was part of the magic imho. Every subsequent iteration ("evolution") felt like its main goal was to minimise the "downtime" between the farming/"phat loot" sequences (raids, instances, etc).

At the time, you could get a demo run a stone so at least some of the party could join quickly. But that took human interaction, some synchronisation ... it was nice and involved.

Disclaimer: I havent touched WoW in more than 10 years, but from what I know of it today -- it's teleport all the way, straight into the instance, with pre-made aor automatically composed groups. You pop in, you loot, you get out. Rinse and repeat.

Some people will enjoy the "instant gratification" part of this. I'm probably amongst those who did not, who don't and who probably never will. It is my opinion (widely shared? no idea) that immersion has been killed by all those "QoL" improvements.

My 2p.

[aparticulate]

I'm actually fairly new to WoW and I can't stand modern version. Classic is a way better experience for beginners in my view. The modern WoW is too manic and there's no mystery, sense of achievement for leveling. Leveling in classic MMOs IS the game, it's a shame to see so much of the "endgame > game" trend lately.

I don't buy that modern players don't have time either. WoW was only seen as an addictive timesink by the contemporary media but if they looked at the average hour counts of most modern multiplayer games, it would surprise many. Most modern service games demand fairly eye-popping time dedication to the casual observer.

[ziml77]

> not too big but not too small

Debatable. I wasn't around for Vanilla but I played Classic up through AQ. The game felt like a walking simulator.

Current WoW is certainly more streamlined, but you still have to earn the ability to travel around faster in current content. One of the Shadowlands zones didn't even let you mount (except for a rare drop for a special mount) until one of the content patches. And that and another zone still don't let you fly.

When you use the matchmade dungeon/raid finder, you do get teleported right into the instance. But for Mythic+ dungeons and Normal or higher raids you still need to manually gather a party and 2 people need to get to the summoning stone.

All of the city portals and the 15 minute hearthstone cooldown do make me a little sad though. My mage portals aren't appreciated nearly as much! :)

[aparticulate]

> My mage portals aren't appreciated nearly as much! :)

non combat abilities is something I feel like modern MMO needlessly eschew. Some people just want to fish and read lore and don't care about combat segments at all.

[ryanbrunner]

I loved Ultima Online for this. I don't think I ever had a character that was even half-decent at combat. I generally just messed around with trade skills and sold stuff. Our guild had a little town in a clearing near Yew, and I managed the vendors and just had a peaceful existence there.

[ziml77]

It would certainly be great if games better supported that non-combat stuff. As someone who plays WoW on WRA I know that plenty of people love to just RP. Total Roleplay is a good addon, but it would be nice if even just a plain text profile and the ability to display if you're IC or OOC were native features of the game.

[SSLy]

And dear God, mythic+ is so much fun, it's crazy. You and four randoms just blasting through easier keys, or struggling through harder ones.

[louissan]

> But for Mythic+ dungeons and Normal or higher raids you still need to manually gather a party and 2 people need to get to the summoning stone.

Fair enough, didn't know that :)

[dwringer]

The dungeon-group finding tools with instant teleport detract from immersion but they are a life-saver if you don't have a lot of time to dedicate per session, or don't have many friends who play at the same times you want to, yet still want to go dungeon-crawling with a party.

There's really nothing stopping people from going the extra mile for role-playing and immersion, it's more the local server communities that have been harmed by these tools but WoW classic brought back a lot of that "old-school" feel for those who seek it.

I'm not really up on the current state of either but I think there's merit in both approaches, I personally found both enjoyable.

[louissan]

all valid point guys, thx for replying. Again, this was just my 2p, back from 2004 and the beta with the Stormwind invasion by skull-level Demons/big-evil-things. :)