[GayforMoleman]

I recently visited NYC and I can’t help but feel the city has a wide culture of laissez faire unenforcement. So many grocery and convenience stores in the city have no posted prices for any items, even in the airport. As a foreigner I was pretty shocked but the people I talked to said it was pretty much normal and there’s nothing really that can be done. Mind you we checked and it is actually not legal to have no visible pricing. I’m not sure what it is that’s stopping the city from actually doing anything about it, like the truck issue it seems it would be trivial to enforce.

[woodruffw]

> I’m not sure what it is that’s stopping the city from actually doing anything about it, like the truck issue it seems it would be trivial to enforce.

Law enforcement in NYC has a revanchist attitude towards the actual citizens of the city. Most of the city's police live outside of the city[1][2] and drive into work, which puts them directly at odds with the average resident.

This attitude extends into every facet of NYC's law enforcement, which is why most of the city's actual petty crimes (illegal parking, dangerous driving, obscured plates) go unreported: everybody knows that the police simply don't care.

Edit: So that I'm not just kvetching, here are some things that I think would improve the situation:

* Allow citizens to report 53' trailers and other illegal vehicles (e.g. obscured plates) in exchange for a cut of the fines, similarly to how the city uses citizens to report idling violations[3].

* Require all uniformed NYPD to attain a post-secondary decree (rather than a partial degree at a rock-bottom GPA, as currently required). Similarly, require them to pass a fitness test similar to the NYFD's.

* Require all uniformed NYPD to live in the city, and restructure their patrols to emphasize the neighborhoods they live in. Minimize in-car patrol time in favor of foot patrols and Japanese style police booths.

[1]: https://gothamist.com/news/majority-nypd-officers-dont-live-...

[2]: Notably, civilian employees of the NYPD (and most NYC civil servants) are actually required to maintain residency in the city. This is purely a carveout for the police.

[3]: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/nyc-anti-idling-la...

[jdeibele]

A local firefighter and I were volunteers for our kids' soccer club. He said that he specifically worked on the other side of town because he didn't want to respond to fires or health emergencies that involved his neighbors.

There are definitely some tradeoffs with having police officers or firefighters live and work in the same neighborhood. Does being familiar with the local troublemaker help or hurt the police response? Does going to the grocery store and seeing the family of someone you couldn't save make you feel like staying home? Or maybe you do see the people you did help.

[woodruffw]

> A local firefighter and I were volunteers for our kids' soccer club. He said that he specifically worked on the other side of town because he didn't want to respond to fires or health emergencies that involved his neighbors.

This is a good point. I think it demonstrates a pretty drastic difference in scope between (ordinary) police and firefighter job requirements: a cop might go their entire career without firing their weapon, while a firefighter's job is almost entirely defined by situations where multiple people might die.

Put another way: I think it's perfectly reasonable for fightfighters to not want to work in the neighborhood they live in, given the severity of the average incident they respond to. I don't think this applies to beat cops, any more than it does to mailmen.

(The other point is also great: there's an argument that cops are more likely to feel territorial or even more violent if they live in the same area as someone they've branded a "troublemaker." I don't have a good answer to this.)

[lowkey_]

As someone who has lived in NYC, there's a ton of crime there [1]. It's not at all similar to being a police officer in a town. It's also part of why police don't seem to care about petty crime in the city.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/05/us/new-york-city-crime-wave-2...

[yowzadave]

> there's a ton of crime there. It's not at all similar to being a police officer in a town.

I assume people get this idea from the media, but it's not true--crime rates in NYC are significantly less than that of most other US cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

A pandemic-related uptick (that has affected the country as a whole) doesn't change the fact that the cops from St. Louis are dealing with a murder rate about 20x what we have in NYC.

[woodruffw]

I’ve lived in this city my whole life. News cycles notwithstanding (there’s a “crime wave” article every single year, using whatever cherry-picked month-to-month statistic proves the point), it’s only gotten safer with each decade.

[DiggyJohnson]

My brother was standing next to a cop in Manhattan when he saw a person get mugged and have their bag stolen about 100 yards down the road (next block over, specifically). He alerted the cop to what he was seeing as the perpetrator ran off around the corner. The victim had a badly bruised face, and was standing but clearly in distress.

The cop shrugged, asked “what am I supposed to do about it?” and walked the other way.

I’m sorry if this seems anecdotal, but this story has had a lasting impact on my opinion of the NYC police. I vouch that there is no hyperbole on this story, neither my brother nor myself want this to be true, and we couldn’t think of any justification for the officer’s apathy. I consider this single incident to be a stain upon the NYPD, and an embarrassment to any American - I don’t usually get worked up about systemic injustice or what it’s worth.

[dTal]

Safer it might be, but that's probably due to sociological effects rather than improved policing.

[logifail]

> He said that he specifically worked on the other side of town because he didn't want to respond to fires or health emergencies that involved his neighbors.

It's totally normal for smaller towns and villages across Germany (and Austria and (?) Switzerland) to have mostly volunteer fire services.

"the predominant number of Germany's 1,383,730 firefighters are members of voluntary fire brigades" [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fire_services

[Smithalicious]

How is getting a degree going to help them enforce a ban on big vehicles? It seems to me that requiring a higher education level is only going to shrink the pool of potential cops and/or increase the amount they have to be paid while doing nothing for the issue under discussion.

[lowkey_]

> Require all uniformed NYPD to live in the city, and restructure their patrols to emphasize the neighborhoods they live in.

In addition to the concern of other commenters of how this could affect their interactions with the community for the worse, I'd be really worried about how our law & order could be affected by intimidation of off-duty police.

There's 100,000+ arrests per year in New York City [1], thousands of them for extremely violent or dangerous crimes. I can only imagine the retaliation that gangs could have on officers who make arrests, or refuse to turn a blind eye.

[1] https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_...

[notch656a]

>Allow citizens to report 53' trailers

AKA standard trailers. Enjoy having a logistics framework where you are incompatible with the primary mode of semi freight in the rest of America.

The lack of enforcement on this element is a testament to pragmatism.

[woodruffw]

> AKA standard trailers. Enjoy having a logistics framework where you are incompatible with the primary mode of semi freight in the rest of America.

Every major city in the US places length restrictions on vans and trailers; most are even stricter than NYC's. Here are Newark's, for example[1]. Most cities actually enforce these laws to no perceptible detriment.

If you actually lived in NYC, you would know that the current absence of enforcement is the exact opposite of pragmatism: these trucks simply cannot safely navigate most NYC streets (even the modern ones that go in straight lines). Even if you ignore unnecessary accidents and injuries, they're just plain inefficient due to their size and unwieldiness on the city's streets.

[1]: https://ecode360.com/36673291

[notch656a]

Standard trailers deliver into the outer boroughs where it is pragmatic and then smaller vehicles go into places like Manhattan. Of course nowhere can you make a trailer completely 'safe' in your own words. But not every borough is Manhattan where navigating a standard trailer is nigh impossible.

If the trailers weren't at all useful then you'd see about as many of them as you see horses. The market would simply flush them out.

Also the code you cited in Newark doesn't mention length that I can find, can you quote where you're referring to? Not saying it isn't there, but I see weight requirements but not length.

>If you actually lived in NYC

Do you live in every borough? If one is not able to speak about somewhere where they do not live, (which is a fallacy I reject) then you recognize you can't speak for the other boroughs and therefore cannot make a sweeping statement that covers all boroughs of NYC.

[woodruffw]

> Standard trailers deliver into the outer boroughs where it is pragmatic and then smaller vehicles go into places like Manhattan. Of course nowhere can you make a trailer completely 'safe' in your own words. But not every borough is Manhattan where navigating a standard trailer is nigh impossible.

You have this exactly backwards. Manhattan's streets are, on average, much safer for trucks to navigate: they're wider, on a standard grid, and have uniform lights and speed zones. The outer boroughs don't have uniform grid plans (take a look at central Brooklyn or Queens on a satellite map: it's all carriage roads) and have much less consistent traffic light coverage. There are exceptions to this (FiDi in Manhattan, for example), but it's the overall pattern.

The irony is that Manhattan is the best case for trucks in the city, but is also the borough with any enforcement whatsoever. For example: trucks are almost completely banned on West End Avenue, and I never saw one (beyond movers) in the 20 years that I lived there.

And to be clear: I'm not saying that trailers aren't useful. They clearly are. I'm saying that they're not efficient in the sense that the city would be better served by fleets of smaller trucks, and that they're a social harm in the sense of the externalities they bring with them.

> I see weight requirements but not length.

You're right, sorry: Newark's are weight, not length (although I would be remiss to note that an empty 53' trailer truck ways significantly more than 4 tons).

> Do you live in every borough?

I have lived the city my entire life, permanently in two boroughs, and have spent many years commuting in and through the other three. You can treat it as overconfidence if you like, but I feel qualified to make these claims based on about two decades of cycling and car travel.

[notch656a]

>You have this exactly backwards.

Hilariously I haven been told the exact opposite by another resident who lives in Manhattan. It's safe to say your viewpoint is hotly contested by some residents of Manhattan themselves.

[wnolens]

Living there, it definitely feels as if there's a low key lawlessness about town. I haven't developed a hatred for the cops here yet, but there's an outspoken critique to the point of being a meme that they enforce very little of these everyday things and beyond (like muggings)

[bobthepanda]

Particularly in the realm of traffic, they tend to flout the law as well; go to nearly any police station and there will be both police and personal cars parked on the sidewalk, or illegally parked in spots.

What makes it particularly galling is that they also oppose automated enforcement of traffic laws. Officially it is because it would take away jobs (that they are not doing, since traffic enforcement in NYC leaves a lot to be desired), and unofficially because the police themselves benefit from the discretion exercised by fellow officers refusing to enforce laws on their colleagues.

[wjnc]

Oh my. My city recently got a few of those vehicles doing automatic parking fines. They were so good the number of fines was national news. There is something to be said for 100% enforcement of these rules. NYC is a boon for AI powered enforcement in that respect. Imagine all video enforceable traffic violations being automatically and instantaneously ticketed. It would change the city (and the cops).

[konschubert]

Why is “this would take away jobs” an argument that can be made in any non-communist country?

[quickthrower2]

Mostly it isn’t unless it is one of those jobs that isn’t needed most of the time but sometimes like for example a soldier or rural fire service and some bean counter thinks yeah we can slash that.

Getting rid of the job gets rid of the people with experience, so it can be a one way switch.

Normally solving a problem with a robot creates more jobs. There are speed cameras, but still you have hidden manually operated speed traps and it frees up resources for drug and alcohol testing.

[dahfizz]

In a democracy, people vote for things. People also want a job. People are not going to vote for things which will lose them their job.

[jokethrowaway]

And when you're the government you don't want to lose employees.

Propaganda will make sure this won't even reach the average citizen.

[bobthepanda]

Police is an interesting edge case, where at least in 2022 the people who want to reduce police are firmly on the left, and those firmly on the right want to cut everything except police.

There was an attempt to defund police, and that went down with the electorate like a lead balloon.

[ivanbakel]

> Why is “this would take away jobs” an argument that can be made in any non-communist country?

Because a capitalist economy is rooted in self-interest. Labour bodies have power to shape the economy, and they represent the interests of their members, who don't want to lose their jobs.

Plus, people are not perfect market actors with such little empathy that they are willing to abandon their colleagues for a bit more workplace efficiency. So if you know that Bob in your office will be fired due to automation, and you like Bob (and worry you are next), you're going to oppose automation.

[jokethrowaway]

Because all countries have an element of socialism and it's fairly significant.

[hbarka]

San Francisco would like a word about low-key lawlessness. Actually beyond low-key.

Watch an open-air market for stolen goods. Watch the impunity. See how City Hall and SFPD respond. https://youtu.be/dykaJjegDEY

[b112]

Just watched.

There is no suitable excuse for this, at all, full stop.

[lupire]

Wow. The city commisioner says "No, yes, No. The police have not been aggressive enough with enforcement, because we don't want them to."

[mehphp]

Unreal. People are getting robbed in traffic at gun point and there are "bigger" "more violent" issues for the police to deal with?

[mschuster91]

Jesus f..ing christ. It's one thing to not crack down on victimless crimes aka people dealing small-time drugs on the street, but that here is a travesty of justice.

I mean... what the fuck is that "yeah we have so many leads to follow up". Dude. Take a hundred officers, cordon off the area and fleece everyone. It isn't that hard. And what the fuck was that "we want police to focus on bigger things"?! Like, camera crews get robbed on highway heists? At gunpoint? Doesn't get much bigger than that!

[mellavora]

> it definitely feels as if there's a low key lawlessness about town.

history of police: the NY police force stared when one politician got his street gang made official.

So the police have a cultural heritage.

And on the other side,the city isn't a bunch of people who basically agree (or think they basically agree) on what is right and wrong, then use the law to enforce this. Counter-example, Sweden from circa 1000 to 2000 AD. (Sweden still thinks it is this, but has growing issues with immigrants from non-nordic cultures)

[quickthrower2]

You can do your bit by bringing all the items to the checkout, ask the price of them all, swap half of the “too expensive” ones. Then repeat. Until finally you have purchased what you want while driving them crazy.

[quietbritishjim]

Unfortunately, driving the minimum wage checkout clerk crazy is probably not going to have any impact on the store owner.

[np_tedious]

In the kind of less formal bodegas that do a poor job listing prices, this clerk might very well be the owner or a family member.

Chain convenience stores and grocery stores will reliably list their prices for each item

[lupire]

> Chain convenience stores and grocery stores will reliably list their prices for each item

No, but the self checkout machine will, as long as the item has a UPC code.

[Mordisquitos]

It could have an effect on the owner in the current US job market though — clerks may no longer be willing to do crazy checkout item shuffling for minimum wage and decide to quit. Then the store owner has to choose what's in their best interest: add price tags to items so minimum-wage workers won't quit, increase wages to convince the workers to stay, or shutdown the business.

[Nextgrid]

It will if people do this en-masse and the throughput of the store goes to zero.

[stavros]

As shitty as it is, making the job harder drives the wages up because people would rather quit than do it.

[jvanderbot]

Using malevolent behavior to make someone's job harder so that turnover increases and wage growth causes market effects that induce owners to comply with laws because gov does not enforce their own laws .... God bless America where the exchange of power between consumers and corporations shall not be infringed.

[Cthulhu_]

Do a full Karen and ask for the manager... every time.

[speed_spread]

Never go full Karen.

[hutzlibu]

Good solution probably, to vent of some steam, but otherwise there are a million things I would rather do, than fighting windmills.

[mafro]

How much time do you have?! Let's be realistic, typically one just wants to buy something, at the right price, and go back to doing something more fun than looking at grocery store shelves.

[quickthrower2]

If I get a spam scam call suddenly my diary opens up :-)

[executesorder66]

> Mind you we checked and it is actually not legal to have no visible pricing.

Wouldn't raising awareness of the illegal activity be the easier thing to do?

[alexanderdmitri]

It seems like the way to go is get someone to inspect the store. Each item with a pricing violation is up to $25 for the first twenty items, up to $50 for each item after capped at a total $2000[0]. Successive inspections can become even more costly.

[0]: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2006/new-york-city-adm...

[GayforMoleman]

I checked after I got back to my home country.. I don’t live there but it definitely didn’t make me want to go back.

[maxerickson]

Looking briefly, it seems owner operated stores with 2 or less full time employees are not subject to the pricing display regulations. Some close family aren't counted as employees.

(I only looked briefly, maybe I misunderstood)

[cure]

> there’s nothing really that can be done

I very much doubt nothing can be done - this is just a matter of (political) will and appropriate enforcement.

Here in MA we also have a law that says that items for sale must be priced. The law must have teeth, because all big stores have dedicated price scanners spread out through the store. The scanners can be used to check the price of any item, in case a price tag was not applied. In general, price tags are present, even in small corner stores.

[gumby]

Here in California the posted price has to include the price in “natural” units (per oz, or per dozen eggs, or whatnot) for easy comparison. Whole Foods gets around this by often displaying the unit price as “per item” (so the two prices on the shelf are the same).

They’ve been getting away with this practice for decades.

[ghaff]

In my experience in MA, in larger stores shelved items usually have a price (and price/pound or price/quart) label on the shelf along with an item description. But it's a lot less common for individual items to be tagged than it used to be. The availability of scanners varies.

[waihtis]

Same here. I was supposed to buy stuff from JFK but no price tag = no purchase.

Also, why are US duty free shops garbage compared to European ones? It's double price at the airport in contrast to the local shops, whereas in EU you can often buy things with a heavy discount at the airport.

[Cthulhu_]

> whereas in EU you can often buy things with a heavy discount at the airport.

I've browsed the tax-free shops in European airports, it's... disappointing. They will bump up the price from retail anyway because people assume it's a good deal, and they'll focus on premium / luxury goods one wouldn't normally buy.

I mean at the same time, you wouldn't find said premium / luxury goods on the high street either, nor an enthusiastic salesperson having you try fancy whiskeys at nine in the morning, so that's a plus on these tax free shops, lol.

[waihtis]

Granted it's a somewhat of an edge case because of the state monopoly, but at least alcohol is 20-40% cheaper at the airport in FIN airports

UK duty free (pre COVID) also seemed to be slightly better priced in contrast to high street

[Symbiote]

I think they are sold without the duty (the sin tax), but still with VAT for an EU flight. Then add on the cost to run a shop in an expensive location.

Comparing a basic Gordens gin, at Copenhagen Airport it's 6DKK (€0.80) less than at a typical supermarket, 165 vs 171DKK/litre. However, the price in Sweden is about 260DKK/litre, and I assume the target market in that airport is Swedes.

[jhugo]

It's even worse: many of the alcohol products for sale at duty free are exclusive to duty free, thus preventing any price comparison. They market this as an advantage (get a whisky you can't get anywhere else!) but at least in the world of Scotch, they're mostly no-age-statement "luxury" whiskies with far more brand than substance.

[samatman]

Why are European goods so enormously expensive compared to US ones?

VAT. The answer is VAT.

[waihtis]

I find absolute US and EU (FIN) prices to be quite on par in categories like groceries, restaurant, alcohol etc.

Of course US has something like triple salary in tech at least, making their purchase power generally much better.

[kergonath]

VAT ranges from 0 to 20%. It is significant, but not enormous.

[nottorp]

There are a lot of consumer protection rules in Europe. For most of them, in the US they don't even know it's possible :)

[cdot2]

Except I'm in Texas where we don't have this issue. This is specifically a New York thing and is an issue with enforcement and not with the wording of the law

[nottorp]

They display final price including sales tax and any “fees” in Texas?

Is your cable/internet/etc contract fixed price for the duration of the contract or they can add any “fees” when they feel like it?

[Fatnino]

I'd say especially at the airport you wouldn't expect to find posted prices. The prices on everything there, even water, are "if you have to ask you can't afford it. And if you can, I don't want to sell it to you".

They have a captive pool of customers and can squeeze them for as much as they like. What are you gonna do? Leave through security to go join the real market? All before your connecting flight? Shut up and pay $10 for 500ml of water.

[GayforMoleman]

Non-Americans would just call that illegal.

[justsomehnguy]

> and there’s nothing really that can be done

And even if they had been posted.. it is still not the price you would pay at the till, because you know, reasons.

[b112]

Here, if the price is posted wrong for groceries, you get the product free, up to 10 bucks.

https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/price-labelling-and-accur...

You'll note that if they put price stickers on the product, things are more lax.

And if they put nothing, you report it. And yes, it is enforced.

It is trivial to handle this stuff. Simple.

[justsomehnguy]

I was talking about famous inability to display the actual price (product/item price + whatever tax applies that time of a day) on a tag.

[b112]

Not sure what you mean, but outside of tax info, as per Quebec link above, no pricing info by, or on the product is illegal here.

And it is enforced.

[andrewshadura]

What the above commenter means, is that in the EU (and many countries across the world) if a price tag says €10, you pay exactly €10. In the US, if the price tag says $10, you may end up paying $12 or something random amount on top of the signed price, because it doesn't include taxes, which makes shopping extremely inconvenient compared to taxes-included price tags.

[b112]

It makes it inconvenient for travellers, I agree there.

Growing up, and living with this, I find it trivial to deal with.

[ajmurmann]

How so people but anything not knowing the prices? When something on a store doesn't have a price, I ask someone if I want it enough or, more likely, won't but it. If a store near me regularly wouldn't have prices posted, I'd stop going there. It seems like any store posting prices would have a competitive advantage. It's every store holding the line?

[snmx999]

Are the items still scanned and everybody gets the same price when paying or are you saying that tourists pay a higher price?

[nerdponx]

The former, and the cashier can also tell you the price of any item before you have to pay for it. However that doesn't help much if you are a foreigner and don't speak English well.

[a4a4a4a4]

> However that doesn't help much if you are a foreigner and don't speak English well.

Well... welcome to the world? You'll have the same issue traveling to South America, Europe, Asia. When you travel and end up in a country where you don't speak the native language, communication gets more difficult. This is a non-issue.

[scambier]

The issue being discussed is the lack of price tags. If I'm a foreigner and don't speak the language, at least I know how much I'll pay beforehand.

[b112]

Quite. Reading numbers is far easier than someone saying those numbers in a foreign language.

If someone speaks 10.43 to me in German, I have no idea.

[vetinari]

Even street vendors in random Asian places will punch the numbers into calculator and show you. You don't have to understand the language.

[em-bee]

it's an issue when you are an introvert, or busy, in a large market. shopping would take hours if i had to ask every stall for the price of every item that i want. so i usually ignore stalls that don't post prices.

[alistairSH]

They don't have a price display on the shelving, or they don't have every single item individually stickered with a price label?

Here in suburban DC, the latter is rare and the former is the norm. That said, we don't have much in the way of bodegas - it's all chain markets from 7-11, Sheetz, etc up to the big grocers.

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

> and there’s nothing really that can be done.

This seems to be a really common refrain for a lot of problems these days.

[freeopinion]

And it isn't true. There are various things that can be done.

You can shop only at stores that do post prices, even if that means travelling some distance or paying higher prices. You could open your own store and be sure to post prices. You could organize a protest in front of stores that don't post prices. You could form a volunteer service that posts prices for stores.

Obviously, these things require various levels of effort from you. They may or may not be worth it to you.

But "there's nothing really that can be done" usually translates to "there's nothing really I am willing to do."

[wolverine876]

That's a feature, not a bug. NYC has always been free, free-wheeling, and very pragmatic. Think for yourself, don't worry about what everyone thinks about you, get things done, work it out pragmatically with the people around you. Look at how traffic flows - no laws describe it, lanes are often ignored, etc., but it works. Saying 'you are violating traffic laws' would be misunderstanding the system fundamentally. NYC has always worked very well, the greatest city in the world for generations (despite recent media campaigns that seem to have forgotten it), but it's also not for everybody.

[bregma]

Ah, but I remeber the 1970s and 1980s when the bankrupt hellhole was considered (by outsiders) one of the worst places on Earth and a place you would only go if you had a suicide wish. You would expect to get mugged or shot, bad graffiti covered every surface, and junkies filled every cold-water walk-up that hadn't yet burned down.

The "broken window" approach to law enforcement started a reversing trend. Seems like that approach has been dropped again, and the old New York is coming back.

[wolverine876]

If we write really extreme hyperbole, it's witty (not really anymore) but doesn't actually support the argument. Millions still lived there; it remained the national capital of finance, publishing, business, arts, etc.; the nation's leading city and one of the world's; a magnet for tourism.

> The "broken window" approach to law enforcement started a reversing trend.

It's a popular claim but AFAIK here's no evidence of that and it's one of those claims that was repeated without anyone looking at the most basic data: Crime dropped nationwide, both in places that used 'broken window' policing and without it. It's like today, where gun crime has increased relatively evenly everywhere, red states and blue, urban and rural areas, but certain political media campaigns have successfully associated it with a certain political group and cities (and by implication, a certain minority). Also, 'broken windows' often amounted to 'harass and drive away people that wealthy white people don't like'.

[mschuster91]

> The "broken window" approach to law enforcement started a reversing trend.

Yeah, may be, but the bulk of the cost was borne by minorities, poor and otherwise vulnerable people [1]. "Broken windows" only works for everyone in a fair way when police is held accountable for their actions and systemic injustice gets combatted in parallel - otherwise it will only serve to entrench the interests of the White, rich population.

[1] https://www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/2018/03-22-NYSAC.pdf

[aleffert]

This really has nothing to do with broken windows or probably even approaches to crime at all. Crime went down for thirty years basically everywhere. Now it is going up basically everywhere. Hard to point at a specific policy when it’s so universal across locales

[wildmanx]

Overall morale is declining. Call it the Trump Effect. Having a leader who behaves like he did normalizes this behavior and immoral behavior becomes more commonplace since people feel its legitimized.

I'm far from being a liberal but that guy objectively didn't show manners, so why should the man on the street..

[wolverine876]

My theory, for which I have no evidence beyond subjective observations, is that Trump jumped on a burgeoning trend (that behavior was trendy before Trump's election, and similar patterns predate him in other countries) and pushed the country over the edge. Many people I know who despise Trump seem to follow his lead in their behavior.

[throwaway0a5e]

>The "broken window" approach to law enforcement started a reversing trend. Seems like that approach has been dropped again, and the old New York is coming back.

The "make low effort comments about leaded gas and crime crowd" would take issue with that statement.

Seems like everyone wants to take credit for the crime decrease in the 90s.

[zppln]

Meh, compared to something like Tokyo NYC is a shitshow.

[Gareth321]

Crime is getting pretty bad these days. (https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00041/nypd-citywide-cri...) It's not as bad as the worst period in New York's history, but that's not an excuse.

[yowzadave]

New York City might well be the safest city in the country:

https://twitter.com/mnolangray/status/1520134999164395521

Obviously there's much that could be done to make the city safer, and it does seem there was an uptick in certain types of crime during the pandemic (though not localized to NYC in any way). I'm just wary of people's intuitions about things like crime, which have historically been divorced from reality.

[Gareth321]

The image on this Tweet was from 2019, which likely uses data from even earlier years. The data I showed you, from the NY city itself, illustrates a sharp rise in crime today.

[wolverine876]

> I'm just wary of people's intuitions about things like crime, which have historically been divorced from reality.

Also, there's a media campaign by conservatives to say that 'liberal cities are dangerous' (and to dog whistle race issues). Somehow, Miami and Texas cities never come up.

[wolverine876]

How is that related to double parking?

[deschutes]

More like everyone in the city thinks they're the main character.