[rabidonrails]

I think that people underestimate what this feels like for the Plaid founder and potentially for Patrick too.

For Plaid you've spent your life building this business. Presumably there are many happy customers and you're working really hard to define the space and provide service. One morning you flip on your laptop and see a headline that one of your customers (and competitors) launched a new service that directly competes with yours.

As the founder of "attacked" company not only do you see the competition coming from a customer but from another "friendly" company in your space. Yesterday you were friends, today you're enemies. Doesn't matter who you are, this comes as a shock and it stings.

Worse still, when you show up on HN, a space that in the past might have championed your service, you are now met with comments about how your customers are excited to switch.

Showing up to HN and seeing your comrades immediately jump ship stings no matter who you are. And if you're Stripe leadership and you believe that you're playing an infinite game, then pissing off another similarly minded company (and supplier) isn't a good feeling either.

[cj]

I don't think anyone would argue that it's a blow to the chest for Plaid.

But, that's business.

Plaid has raised $700m+ and is valued $10+ billion according to Wikipedia. This move by Stripe is absolutely one that any competent leadership team should have expected would happen sooner or later.

[pbreit]

Especially since Stripe indicated exactly what it was doing via RFP.

[collectedparts]

Nit: I think you meant "I don't think anyone would dispute that it's a blow".

Saying "I don't think anyone would argue that X" means "I don't think anyone thinks X".

[CPLX]

I think his phrasing is also grammatical English. The degree to which it sounds right or wrong is probably idiomatic.

"it's a blow to the chest for Plaid" is a coherent phrase

"I don't think anyone would argue that" is a coherent phrase that contains a pronoun, "that." The antecedent of this pronoun is that first phrase.

I don't think anyone would argue X can mean the statement X is so true nobody would argue it.

An example would be "I don't think anyone would argue the legitimacy of George Washington as the first president of the US" or "I don't think anyone would argue the merits of food when you're hungry"

Therefore the phrase can be correctly interpreted to mean:

I don't think anyone would argue that -> [it's a blow to the the chest for Plaid]

[jonny_eh]

> is so true nobody would argue it.

You mean: is so true nobody would argue AGAINST it.

The ambiguity is whether argue means FOR or AGAINST.

[CPLX]

Indeed. Which makes the sentence work.

[darkerside]

CEOs are literally paid to deal with these emotions constructively. In this case, that would have looked like welcoming a competitor to the space and being ready to win on execution, because ideas are free.

[itslennysfault]

A prime example of this is the response Slack gave when Microsoft launched Teams. It was a direct copy-cat and they didn't throw a temper tantrum. They welcomed Microsoft into the space and saw it as validation of their product.

[JumpCrisscross]

> it was a direct copy-cat and they didn't throw a temper tantrum

I’m seeing people conclude a lot more about Plaid from the CEO’s outburst than from Stripe’s announcement. If a competitor throws into your ring and your first move is to call foul on technicalities, it suggests you don’t think you can win on merit alone.

[60secz]

This. Moat harder.

[doktorhladnjak]

That may have been true at first but then why did they go to the EU antitrust regulator with a complaint?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/22/slack-accuses-microsoft-of-a...

[darkerside]

Welcoming competition is different from approving of a competitor abusing their platform to sell only their own products. Note that I am not saying this is what Microsoft is doing, just saying that this is what Slack claims to believe they are doing.

IMO, their welcoming of competition, on an even playing field, only strengthens their request that Microsoft compete fairly.

[pastor_bob]

A CEO like Steve Jobs would have sought to destroy them and wouldn't have been afraid to openly snub them. Sometimes you go for the jugular

[hobs]

And Steve Jobs was an asshole who died believing citrus would cure his cancer while parking in handicapped parking lot zones so, maybe don't idolize him.

[bernardom]

"NBA players are literally paid to entertain us. They should just absorb the verbal abuse."

"Waiters are literally paid..."

Or we could be humans?

[caylus]

Where did you get "verbal abuse" from? We're talking about competition, so a far closer analogy would be an NBA player having to play a a game against one of their friends. Should they not have to do that in exchange for their salary?

[bestcoder69]

What’s the analogy here exactly? Non-coordinated competition is akin to verbal abuse?

Isn’t there a much more obvious NBA analogy here, which would actually make the CEO-empathy pleas appear even more ridiculous?

Were you attempting the move “X=Bad to me, Y=Bad to you, Bad=Bad, therefore X=Y”?

[SnowHill9902]

Ideas are not free. Good execution is better than good ideas alone, true. But ideas can definitely be worth a lot.

[darkerside]

Any sufficiently good idea is really hard to communicate but really easy to demonstrate. That means you get a head start, but the next person gets it for free. That head start is your time to build a business with a moat. If you haven't done it by then, the next person will.

[davidatbu]

> Any sufficiently good idea is really hard to communicate but really easy to demonstrate.

I'm gonna steal this.

[SnowHill9902]

That phrase was his idea.

[bornfreddy]

But it was just communicated. Wait till they demonstrate it.

[darkerside]

It's free :)

[jonny_eh]

> Any sufficiently good idea

There are all sorts of good ideas. Some are easy to communicate, some demonstrate, some both, some neither.

[darkerside]

They're not sufficiently good for my theorem!

[mbesto]

Is there an eBay/Amazon for ideas? Didn't think so.

Ideas are worthless.

[SnowHill9902]

RSA was once just an idea without an implementation. Would you say it was worthless? Why was it published then?

[darkerside]

A defined specification is very different from an idea. RSA is a perfect example. I would say the "idea" here is public key cryptography. It was total genius when it was invented, and 99.999% of the world didn't care a lick.

Once it was implemented in several crypto systems, including RSA, and people started using it, the value became clear.

[mbesto]

> Why was it published then?

Was the publication sold to anyone? Why did Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Leonard Adleman decide to create a company using the concept rather than just sell the publication itself?

I think you just proved my point.

[rchaud]

Yeesh, I'm glad he didn't say that. What a vapid soundbite. I don't mean that to reflect on you, you worded it exactly as a CEO would. "We welcome competition", what a joke!

[benjaminwootton]

A lot of CEOs say this platitude. They are initially worried, but it often turns out to be good news because it accelerates or is a sign of a growing market.

[jonny_eh]

See: Zuckerberg's response to the launch of Google Plus.

[eli]

What would you say?

Making it personal I don't think helps anyone.

[unethical_ban]

I get the CEO speak, but I think rchaud is saying "no one welcomes competition - everyone wants a monopoly and to make as much money as possible". So saying otherwise sounds like garbage.

People only "want competition" in the manner of controlled opposition, where they know they can beat someone.

[darkerside]

Competition is going to come whether you like it or not. You can whine about it, or you can use it as a tool to push yourself to be better.

rchaud find this to be a platitude, but frankly, I don't give a shit what he thinks. If I'm a good CEO, I care much more about how my employees react to the new competition than to how this internet rando feels about my public response.

[unethical_ban]

Speaking of effective communication, I don't think your tone effectively persuades skeptical listeners. You are on a forum of Internet randos, having a polite discussion.

[kelnos]

Plaid is a huge company with a CEO who is presumably a professional adult. Making sarcastic, whiny commends on Twitter should be beneath him. He just sounds like a child throwing a tantrum because a company decided to compete with him.

Not saying he shouldn't feel bad, or threatened, or upset -- those are perfectly valid feelings to have -- but airing those feelings like that is unprofessional and, frankly, pretty lame.

[JumpCrisscross]

> sarcastic, whiny commends on Twitter should be beneath him. He just sounds like a child throwing a tantrum

The problem is it looks like someone who feels they've been beaten. Twitter tantrums are precedented and tolerated for Silicon Valley CEOs at this point.

[ergocoder]

Not only that. His tweet misled people.

"Interview" turns out to be a job interview Jay had in 2014 before Jay even joined Stripe.

Jay started working on this product in 2019.

This is malicious. Plaid CEO intended to character-assassinate Jay.

[stu2b50]

I mean, I guess? I would feel a bit more sympathetic if it were a very small company, and very young. But while Plaid is small relative to Stripe, it's a _9 year old company_ that's worth 10-13 _billion_ dollars. If you're seriously that affected by other companies in the space launching competitor products... in the _9_ years of your company's existence, in a market evidently lucrative enough to net you a several billion dollar valuation... I'm not sure what to say.

[wmf]

Stripe attempting to devour the entire financial stack should not have come as any surprise; their strategy is by now obvious from the long list of features they've launched over their history.

[powerslacker]

Seems like they pull a stunt like this every year.

[eatonphil]

> pull a stunt

You mean growing their business?

[bestcoder69]

Please… my violin can’t get any tinier or we risk splitting the atom.

[Jcowell]

I don’t think OP isn’t asking for sympathy but empathy? Is this the name of the game ? Yeah it is , always has , always will be. Does it suck for the loser ? Yes for course.

[rabidonrails]

First, I think you hit the nail on the head in:Is this the name of the game ? Yeah it is , always has , always will be. Does it suck for the loser ? Yes for course.

However, I didn't really ask for anything. In fact, what I think that bestcoder69 is missing is that the person who is asking/showing empathy is actually PC.

If we look at what he wrote, he doesn't just come out and say something like tough luck for them, this is business, instead he says things like "we could have handled this better" and "...will retro this next week" and then lays out what the lessons should be for his team_

Just because empathy is important in business doesn't mean you aren't allowed to win.

[bestcoder69]

It’s fair to ask I guess. But thats just gonna be another form of disappointment for them…

[arinlen]

> I don’t think OP isn’t asking for sympathy but empathy? Is this the name of the game ?

Unless you believe a company like Plaid is entitled to a monopoly and should be free from any semblance of competition, I don't see a problem with that.

What happened to free market capitalism?

[Jcowell]

It’s nothing about entitlement. It’s not a matter of whether stripe moving into the space is right or wrong. It’s about empathizing that when this kind of thing happens to a company the founder probably doesn’t feel too hot. You can try understand Plaid’s feelings right now while at the same time thinking Stripe is just doing what businesses will do.

[devoutsalsa]

Maybe we can harness the energy from pity parties of sufficiently notable scope.

[djbusby]

The power of a thousand tiny violins?

[voidfunc]

Im rolling my eyes at this. Dont get into business or politics if you have thin skin.

[Dayshine]

So... Be born into a lift of luxury?

[dymk]

I thought the lofty rich were the ones with the thin skin, and it's the built-it-with-grit folks that have the thick sink.

[cercatrova]

This is a strange comment. This is literally how business and competition works, and how customers benefit as a result. No doubt it sucks to have a product competed with but that's just business. Of all areas on the Internet I'd have expected those on HN to understand, as it's run by a VC who is all about disruption of the competition.

[Dma54rhs]

And the the valuation fir the smaller company is 10 billion. Its not like they are crushing your mom and pop shop here.

[peyton]

10 years in I highly doubt either of them take anything that personally.

[RcouF1uZ4gsC]

> As the founder of "attacked" company not only do you see the competition coming from a customer but from another "friendly" company in your space. Yesterday you were friends, today you're enemies. Doesn't matter who you are, this comes as a shock and it stings.

Some time back, Steve Jobs felt the same way about Apple employees being offered positions at other companies, so he sent an email to his "friends". The result was an illegal "gentleman's agreement" not to hire each other's employees.

Companies basing their decisions about entering a market based on what their "friends" at other companies think is market allocation, and it is illegal.

[peyton]

Ok, the truth on the Jobs one is significantly more nuanced. Not everything is public. I don’t think it was a friendly thing haha.

[snake_doc]

Minor comment on the infinite game assumption from a game theory perspective . Stripe is clearly deviating, which means that they have made a payoff calculation that it’s better to do say despite being punished by Plaid and other players.

[arinlen]

> One morning you flip on your laptop and see a headline that one of your customers (and competitors) launched a new service that directly competes with yours.

What's wrong with that?

[gigatexal]

When your business becomes a feature of another larger offering it’s time to sell and move on.