[bitwize]

I was explaining the mRNA vaccines to my dad who has... a tough time getting them, and the analogy I used was that ribosomes are like tiny 3D printers which print whatever is encoded in mRNA. Normally these are proteins and structures for your own body whose specs are copied over from DNA, but when the mRNA vaccine enters the cell the ribosomes 3D-print a single COVID spike, which then triggers an immune response.

[innomatics]

That's a nice explanation.

If I were him I'd ask why not just print the spikes at the vaccine factory and inject them?

TBH I'm not sure if it's easier/cheaper to use the 3D-printers in our cells, or its more about accurate delivery to the right places, or something else.

[civilized]

Some educated guesses:

1. We don't have "ribosomes at scale"

2. We don't have a way to separate the ribosome product from the factory

3. Keeping the product stable is hard

[mrguyorama]

Another interesting reason is that if you do it the mRNA way, you will continue to internally produce those spike proteins to train your immune system for a week or two

[ch4s3]

Basically it takes longer to produce them at scale, and they've been less effective at preventing covid infection in clinical trials.

[arrosenberg]

The non-mRNA vaccines do work like that. They use big vats of bacteria as bioreactors and ship the finished product.

Long term, mRNA is a more flexible solution - just ship the blueprints and let people make it themselves.

[dukeofdoom]

What stops new spike proteins from being printed endlessly and damaging the immune system?

The newly released Pfizer documents show that some people experienced severe reactions to the vaccine, up to and including death. Many of the severe reactions mirrored reactions to COVID itself. Isn't the spike protein itself the dangerous part of the virus?

[clarionbell]

> Isn't the spike protein itself the dangerous part of the virus?

No. The dangerous part is the genetic payload of the virus, which hijacks your cells, forcing them to make more of copies of the virus.

Spike protein is just a part of the viral machinery. But it is the part your immune system reacts to.

[ch4s3]

> What stops new spike proteins from being printed endlessly and damaging the immune system?

The RNA breaks down quickly and predictably and then it stops being picked up by the ribosomes.

> damaging the immune system

The immune system exists to look at, catalogue, and react to things like foreign proteins. The spike protein get made and ejected from your cells into interstitial fluids. From there they flow into lymph nodes. Special cells in the lymph nodes make anti-bodies and record the shape of the protein in anticipation of seeing it again in the future. Think of that as the second line of defense, with the anti-bodies being the first line. Anti-bodies prevent infection, and the cells that recognize the protein on the virus fight and infection if it happens.

> The newly released Pfizer documents show that some people experienced severe reactions to the vaccine

This is the immune response. The adaptive immune system can over react to stimuli for lack of a better work and trigger cascades of neutrophils and other immune cells and proteins to flood you circulatory system. The main weapon of these immune responses is inflammation which is stressful on your body. But pathogens, vaccines, or any number of things could trigger this response.

[usdptoftruth]

[flagged]

[babypuncher]

Billions of vaccines administered and no reports of statistically significant complications, let alone deaths as a result. Please stop spreading FUD

[dukeofdoom]

Getting a blood clot is a significant complication that does result in death sometimes.

FDA puts strict limits on Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/05/health/fda-johnson-johnson-va...

[ch4s3]

The discussion here is mostly about the mRNA vaccines, and the J&J vaccine uses a viral vector like more traditional vaccines.

EDIT: For what it's worth I think you original question was fine to ask. There's a lot to know about here if you don't want to trust experts and take what they say at face value.

[chriswarbo]

Deadly blood clots are also a significant complication of not getting vaccinated.

[hcknwscommenter]

Please stop. Covid vaccines did not fail and are incredibly safe. They have saved millions of lives. The source of misinformation is you.

[qsdf38100]

Interestingly this account is 1 hour old. I would love to know how this works. Is that person paid? Or is he on a personal disinformation mission? Does he believe in the seemingly carefully crafted lies he writes?

[ch4s3]

Probably just someone who is really animated about the topic, and hasn't grappled with the underlying biology very much. There's a lot to take in and understand about how the immune system works, I don't fault people for misunderstanding it or even having strong distrust for pharma. I try to respond with that in mind, and assume people aren't being malevolent. Even if they are, it's useful to publicly shoot down bad ideas and bullshit.

[ch4s3]

> That was the story the officials told skeptics in the beginning. We now know it's much longer:

The paper you linker is about lymph serology and antibodies, not the persistence of mRNA in cell. RNAs in general have a median half life of just 2.4 minutes, just chemically. THat's basic science and super well established.

> The spike protein is actually slightly modified to anchor itself to your cells, not to be ejected by them.

The basic mechanism is that the spike proteins make it to lymph nodes, they need to leave the cell to do that. The proteins leave the cell by exocytosis, basic cell transport. The spike binds to ACE2 receptors, and there aren't necessarily many of those on skeletal muscle cells. Sot he spikes float around in the interstitial fluid until it gets flushed through the lymph system and into lymph nodes, where immunity is built.

> Which begs the question -- what's the implications of expressing an antigen on the surface of your own genetic material? Are auto-immune diseases a risk?

Your genetic material is inside of the nucleus of your cells. Auto-immune diseases aren't a risk, the spikes aren't part of your cells.

> The covid vaccines produce a version of the spike protein which hasn't been seen in 2 years

It's similar enough that your immune system will recognize it, even if the antibodies aren't specific enough. B cells and T cells will still see spike covered sheaths of viruses as unfriendly after vaccination. That's why vaccines reduce hospitalization, even when they may not prevent infection for a particular variant. If the spike changed enough to be unrecognizable, it probably wouldn't bind to ACE2 receptors anymore.

> Additionally, they don't produce any proteins found on other portions of the virus. This results in a rather ineffective vaccine with incredibly narrow immunity

That as I explained isn't how immunity works, it's multilayered. The antibodies may no longer be specific enough, but the adaptive immune system still has plenty to work with.

> You don't know this. The lipid nanoparticles are shown to travel to every corner of the body within hours of the injection

We basically do. All of the parts of the vaccine will travel through the lymph system over the course of a day or so, that's how the lymph system works, and that's how all vaccines work. Lipid nano particles are just little tiny globules of fats, they get filtered out by the lymph nodes and spleen and then excreted in solid waste.

> Turns out the mRNA vaccine finds its way into breastmilk and is causing hepatitis in children

There have been 7 documented cases of auto-immune hepatitis after mRNA vaccines and non through breast milk. All vaccines carry risks of dangerous auto-immune responses for a small set of individuals and always have.

> Quit acting like you're a source of authority.

I just like reading books and bio-science papers, and got really into immune system science a few years ago because I have asthma and allergies. The papers aren't hard to read after you nail down basic terminology.

> You are a source of misinformation.

I don't know what this means in context. I'm basically quoting from a cell biology textbook for a lot of this stuff.

> Covid vaccines failed

They've been pretty effective in disconnecting infection from hospitalization, which I don't think is a controversial position.

> because people like you decided to trust the science.

I don't know what "the science" is. I'm not taking any of this on religious faith. There's a lot of published research at this point, and the underlying biology isn't THAT hard to understand at a basic level.