[blub]

First of all, the destruction of property, the deaths and the displacement of millions of people that Ukraine’s suffering is certainly not winning. They’re also not punishing Russia, as they lack the capability of doing so. They’re fighting for survival.

The US is contrary to what you’ve said essential to this conflict. Without the US, Ukraine would already have a new pro-Russia president and the EU would have folded like a wet towel.

Finally, “everyone” is not really everyone: it’s the US and allies. Countries that are bordering Russia like China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan or Belarus don’t necessarily share those interests or have opposite interests.

[trasz]

Russian losses are several times higher, even without taking into account the money and property confiscated as part of sanctions. And the difference will only grow: Ukraine can be rebuilt, especially with all that Russian money. Russia won’t, simply because there is no reason for anyone to allow for this to happen: the only useful thing Russia got to offer is resources, and they can be obtained much cheaper if Russia is kept under control.

Yes, it is true that without US Ukraine maybe wouldn’t be able to defend. We know what would happen: mass genocide. Russians already demonstrated that in Bucha, Mariupol and others.

As for “everyone”: no, I mean literally everyone. Kazakhstan is leaving Russian “economic union”. China declines to buy from Russia, because that market is worthless and the risk doesn’t justify the price drop for Russian resources.

[blub]

Ukraine will take decades to recover unless they receive massive economical aid from the EU or US. Right now they say they will provide that help, but at least in the case of the EU I don’t see how that’s possible given the big economical and social problems inside the bloc. And in the US it’s not clear how the next elections will turn out and what kind of policies will be implemented.

Anyway your key point was that they’re the victors when they’re clearly not. Even if Russia completely pulled out tomorrow they’d have suffered incredible losses.

[trasz]

Russian frozen reserves were what, 200 billion? Passing it to Ukraine shouldn’t strain EU or US budgets.

As for losses - in war the victor always suffers some losses. The point is: Ukraine will survive this, Russia probably won’t.

[blub]

Based on media interviews with experts it doesn’t seem like the West has any legitimate claim on the money/assets and there’s a lot to untangle to make it legally possible to touch them. Even if that were to happen, the consequences would be significant.

The EU and the US could casually and arbitrarily claim the assets of any country which is involved in a random conflict not associated with either the EU or US. Nobody will like that, the former two included.

Hard to see why you keep talking about victory and which country will survive or not when the war is not over and nobody knows when or how it will end. You’re presenting personal preferences as facts.

[trasz]

Losers don’t have legal rights. See how nazi Germany and Japan were handled after WW2.

As for “random conflict” - this isn’t a random conflict, as evidenced by the scale of (still expanding) sanctions.

[blub]

Don’t know much about Japan, but German nazis were not only subjected to trial, but some of them even got jobs in e.g the US. So losers do have rights, even literal nazis in 1945.

From the P.O.V of China, Brasil and many other countries it is a random conflict that does not affect them. Rather it’s the sanctions which they take notice of and the indirect effects of the sanctions such as food shortages, price increases, etc.