[HelloMcFly]

I'm in an odd state with this. I refuse to let myself slide into apathy and not have some level of action. I register voters, I support climate activities (financially, letters to representatives, and lifestyle changes) and look for opportunities for local action.

I do this despite truly believing it won't matter and things will just keep getting worse. I'm smart enough to know I'm not smart enough to be confident in that assessment, but it is what I believe and feel. I simply can't face myself in the mirror if I allow myself to be inactive or uncaring because of my own forecasts for the future.

[mikeholler]

This is how I started getting into it, not really believing in my actions but doing something because I felt it was principally, morally right. Through CCL and their science-based approach and reliance on external studies, I've learned that we are on a trend that is far better than most people think. Sure, it's not good. But it's not devastating.

Renewable energy is on the rise like never before. Electric cars are being pushed harder and harder each year. More of our elective representatives support climate initiatives each year. The conservative climate caucus is a brand new thing that is happening. Other countries are introducing carbon pricing with border taxes that will hurt the US economically unless we introduce our own.

It can be hard to do work and not expect to see payoff, but if you take the long view instead of the short view, statistics about support and momentum are actually on our side.

[whimsicalism]

Afaict, and I follow this significantly, we were never going to see significant climate devastation in our life time. With lag, it'll be our children and our children's children.

While the developed world has been able to offset emissions (renewable growth, but also just pushing manufacturing to the global south), it still has not been nearly enough to avert the worst impacts.

And we also don't know at what point positive feedbacks will become runaway and humans will stop being the primary driver.

Things are improving, but not so much that I would be actively optimistic.

[time_to_smile]

> we were never going to see significant climate devastation in our life time.

Curious your thoughts on just these two observations:

Rapid decrease in Lake Mead (and Powell's) water level: http://mead.uslakes.info/level.asp

Rapid decrease of summer arctic sea ice: https://www.arcticdeathspiral.org/

It's very likely within a decade or two we'll see so little water coming out of Mead that the Hoover dam cannot produce electricity.

We also might see a "blue ocean event" in the same time scale.

Do you not consider these "significant climate devastation"? There are many other examples, but since you "follow this significantly" you probably know about them, but for just these two I'm honestly confused how you can see these as non-issues.

[whimsicalism]

Sure, I guess when I am using that phrase I am using it in response to people who are suggesting that there is existential and/or civilization-collapsing level of risk within our lifetime.

Significant climate devastation to me means significantly degraded quality of life or difficulty staying alive.

You can definitely isolate a lot of things that are being impacted by the climate changing, but even if the entire Hoover dam can no longer produce electricity it will not reach those levels to me.

I don't think these are "non-issues."

[HelloMcFly]

To me, it's neither here nor there that the collapse may occur in our lifetime. It's the beauty of the natural world that I mourn, seeing it fail, and diminish, and the world becomes less colorful and whole.

My most comforting thought is that the Earth will continue, life will continue, and even in a worst-case scenario it's likely the complex ecologies will re-establish in the fullness of time.

[giraffe_lady]

The conclusion I drew is that socially acceptable forms of resistance like voting and writing letters are socially acceptable because they are ineffective. Just get more radical it's more effective and you'll feel better too.

[lazide]

Until you get arrested anyway, can’t get a normal job again, lose your kids because of it, etc.

Large scale social unrest happens because increasingly large portions of society have nothing left to lose.

As an individual, that’s not great.

It does eventually result in change though!

[HelloMcFly]

What are you advocating for, giraffe_lady? Am I to throw Molotov cocktails into the windows of Koch Brothers' owned businesses?

Define "radical" for me. I don't know what to do, but I know what I won't do: remove myself from the lives of the people I love.

[kitkat_new]

civil disobedience

radical doesn't mean violence

[HelloMcFly]

I'm asking for specifics. What specifically do you suggest? I'm open to suggestions, I'm not asking this as a way to deflect.

[kitkat_new]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/03/insula...

Further examples: justStopOil, last generation, scientist rebellion, ...

[whimsicalism]

What does "civil disobedience" look like to you? And when has it accomplished radical change recently?