[xwolfi]

It's hard to say there's a direct causation. I left France myself because I felt the problems shown in these indicators were so deeply rooted in the French psyche that there was simply nothing to do. For instance, dropping the unemployment rate to a level akin to Germany would require us to see life like Germans do: practically, minding social cost of social welfare, admitting mistakes and correcting course rather than doubling down etc.

I voted Macron because he was the only one suggesting maybe the French people are the root cause rather than the political color of the president, but I understand this guy did it that way: everyone will make the president own these indicators and judge him accordingly, and of course be permanently disappointed and vote more and more radical. If you look at the landscape this election it's 30% "fuck it all it's the foreigners" LePen, 30% "fuck it all it's the 1%" Melenchon and 30% "fucking hell dudes, we dont know what it could be but the 2 others are scary so let's just stick to the evil we know" Macron.

I've never heard someone clearly stating without being shunned immediately "guys, the problem, I think I know, it's simply... all of us" :D And yes even external factors will be blamed on the president, especially if he proposes to adapt to it: why would we proud light of the world adapt to american or chinese competition, we can simply do nothing at all while posturing on the streets we re fighting for our "social acquisitions" as we call our rigid policies.

[dopidopHN]

I suspect you moved to the US? I did that as well, out of love for a human being; not a disdain of the political surrounding.

Boy oh boy, French have it good. They have no idea. Maybe they do have it good because they keep asking for more.

I don’t even find the country specifically dis functional ( compared to the US )

But that just my own personal data point. Also, I live in the buttcrack of the US, maybe it’s not fair. ( and I love that said buttcrack :) ! )

[xwolfi]

I moved to Hong Kong, which has its own issues. Out of love for a human being, for sure, but let s say I didnt convince that sweet other to move to France hehe. She would have if I asked, but as an unemployed english speaking Pakhistani in France, she would have had more trouble than me in a fully employed society like HK.

It's disfunctional if you live in it and pay taxes. For me we waste our taxes if we cant make a balanced budget, it s not even a crazy philosophy: we live beyond our means and borrow from others to calm down the electorate, we re cheating. In Hong Kong my taxes go to a surplus, you wont hear me criticise the gov much, because at least they got their basics right. I pay my 12k USD yearly with a proud smile that I contribute to building something that s coherent if not perfectly democratic. While I paid my 2k euros in France grumbling it s all going to waste anyway. You can also guess the salary increase you have working in a place where unemployment is a meaningless concept, because no welfare.

I dislike the US as much as the next guy and do not see it as a proper model. Let s not even talk of tax surplus there. Germany sounds like they try to do politics the right way but it s not like I know it all that much beyond their results.

[dopidopHN]

I pay roughly the same proportion of my income here than in France: a big month of salary. ( just a wildly different salary … )

In France I do it happily, we get so much in return. From social redistribution to infrastructure.

Here, oh god, I understand why the average murican hates taxes and government : they get close to nothing in return.

In regards to States balancing their budget. It’s tempting to think that what is good for a individual is good for the state. Let’s just say I subscribe to Keynesian economics, so I’m fine with a state spending.

[ngcc_hk]

I do not think hk is coherent. The tax you paid is not all. Your rent is your tax as well. Anyway people are running from the police state they are building. May be you are ok. Good luck. No luck to hk people though.

[johnthewise]

What do you think is the problem? I know next to nothing about France and by simply looking at the graphs, it seems to be getting better, no? Unemployment is decreasing, purchasing power is increasing, rent increase is not that crazy compared to how it is in the world. Is it about how things have always been or is it about deltas in recent times? Seems to me the former is the case here.

[xwolfi]

I would say it's getting better, maybe not to the point I d come back, probably because like I smelled, Macron helped unwind some of our social rigidity, but from the look of it (my families and friends back on the motherland), he made so many people seethe with rage with his "we must adapt or die" attitude that he ravaged the moderate parties to the profit of the populists on both side who want to reassure that we can unwind everything because none of our problems are of our own making...

But yes, def positive, def happy from abroad, and def coming back when Macron-like consensus is at 60% rather than 30, anything less means it's going to come back.

As for the root cause I think it's because we misunderstand what we are: a small country dependent on Germany's benevolence to continue with our post war marshall plan attitude. We must produce, we must invent, we must adapt, we must sacrifice. But instead we whine, we fight on the street and we vote for populist comfort that we're still the great napoleonic empire, light of the Universe, that s the issue. And yes, I know im whining here too :D Also note at least 70% of french people disagree with me, so, grain of salt...

[thenaturalist]

Hi there, first of all thank you for sharing your perspective!

In your post and a different real life convo with a French friend of mine I am surprised to learn that he is similarly frustrated with the political process as you seem to be. He mentioned deGaulle set up the presidential election process the way it is today post WWII to weaken the impact of radical politicians like le Pen for obvious reasons. It seems the approach is more and more backfiring, though. Do you feel like it's all French "esprit" of trying to buckle against the obvious or is there any discussion around the design of the elections as well?

Other than that, I have to say, I totally chuckled on your remark that you think of France as a small country dependent on Germany's benevolence. As a German neighbour and friend, let me tell you that I think of France by no means as a small country. Your country's cultural achievements in cuisine, in literature, poetry, music are absolutely legendary, world class.

France ignited the process towards democracy both at home and abroad. You upheld humanitarian values long before the rest of Europe and especially Germany did. You are the only continental European country which is a nuclear power.

Yes Germany has a larger - and incredibly export dependent - economy. If all runs smooth globally the party is on, if it doesn't like now the entire engine becomes quite fragile. And we're entering an era where much of the focus will turn more inwards I believe towards domestic or inter-European supply chains and production.

I guess I don't want to paint a rainbow against what you are saying, but just share as a German that our country just like any other has its own set of issues stemming from what seems desirable at first glance. And I am truly happy and sleep better at night knowing that France with it's sound humanitarian values, military power and richt culture is an ally and friend in Europe.

[xwolfi]

I guess we all want what we don't have. I'd trade the cuisine for German engineering because it feels somehow, in the grand scheme, what will matter eventually is to resist and compete with a Chinese democracy, centuries down the line.

For countries like France relying on past capital and stagnating, admired by productive germans who dream of our dilletante for sure, waking up next to a space faring, technologically advanced and politically enticing China, size of a small planet may I remind you, will be hard. Maybe we ll sell them poetry, but my guess is we ll deplete for good and rot away. We ll never manage to keep the nanny state, since to this day, we borrow from.. . China to finance it.

[johnthewise]

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Was this "we must adapt or die" a distasteful rhetoric or political blunder that angered some people for no reason or was a justification for some of his plans? I generally think people are mostly aware of the deltas in their living conditions, so it seemed interesting to me that people are still looking for a radical change even things are getting objectively better. Hope you guys don't fuck around and find out :)

[hef19898]

It needed Schroeder's Agenda 2010 and Hartz 4 to reduce unemploymebt in Germany. When that started, Germany was considered Europe's sick man. Whether or not it was worth it is a good question, we don't know what things would be without all of that. What is certain, so, is that Hartz 4 took a lot away from our social network. And we pay the price still today.