[rayiner]

> Children spend easily half their waking day with their educators five out of seven days a year, about eight out of twelve months. The power is there by default

That's exactly what people are worried about--schools using their monopoly over children's time and attention to exceed the scope of their mandate.

> For example, classrooms can teach stealing is wrong (and enforce it via code of conduct). They're not brainwashing the youth with a belief in the value of private property and societal protection of it when they do so. Nor are they brainwashing the youth into believing in the correctness of division of labor if they hang one of these in the classroom (https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Resources-Helping-Hands-Pock...).

That schools have the power to set and enforce rules, and explain to kids what's socially "allowed" and "not allowed"--e.g. bullying, for any reason, is not allowed--is not in dispute, and doesn't require teachers to opine on disputed moral issues.

> That's an excellent concern for parents to have, and school boards are usually excited to hear feedback on the curriculum if there is a perception that students are being taught a morality that clashes with their parents'. Building a curriculum that benefits students as much as possible is a collaborative exercise.

Public schools and parents don't "collaborate" on the moral education of children. That's squarely in the domain of parents. That's one of the basic bargains that allows pluralism to work, and a key reason why America has largely avoided the disaster with integrating Muslims that France has brought upon itself.

[shadowgovt]

Again, it is impossible for schools to have no say in the moral education of children when children are spending about half their waking hours there. Children are sponges and they will learn what is right and wrong from the observation of the environment they're in; there's no realistic understanding of how children learn that indicates a way to turn that off.

So collaboration is the best-case scenario, because the alternative is a fight. I dislike that this law seems crafted to say "Yes, a fight is the correct approach." That puts children in the middle of an adversarial situation and is therefore unwise.

[rayiner]

> Again, it is impossible for schools to have no say in the moral education of children when children are spending about half their waking hours there.

That's just an inherent tension when you combine a Constitution that guarantees robust religious pluralism with taxpayer-funded public education. You have to think robustly about how to give effect to pluralism in the face of practical necessities.

> So collaboration is the best-case scenario, because the alternative is a fight. I dislike that this law seems crafted to say "Yes, a fight is the correct approach." That puts children in the middle of an adversarial situation and is therefore unwise.

Whether there is collaboration or a fight often depends on whether the parties clearly agree on their respective rights and roles. If you build your house partly on my land, my response is going to depend in large part on whether you acknowledge the boundary line or attempt to deny it.

A fight is brewing here because there's a disagreement as to rights and roles. In Tinker, the Warren court wrote that educators could exercise their in loco parentis to prevent conduct that would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school." It may be that there are incidental moral teachings that bear on that function. So long as we all agree about the limited scope of that authority--only as need to maintain discipline, etc.--we can collaborate on the details.

If educators insist, however, that their role--by virtue of their profession and education--is to teach kids about their view of evolving "secular morality," and displace the moral teachings of parents, then collaboration is not possible and a fight is in order. Because that's a sweeping expansion of educators' role. And it jeopardizes the compromises that a lot of people have made with the larger society. As my mom told me growing up, "just because your American friends can do something doesn't mean that you can."

[shadowgovt]

> "just because your American friends can do something doesn't mean that you can."

That's an excellent example, and I would hope the public education system would teach you that you have exactly the same rights as every American, in contrast to the incorrect information you are receiving from the home. For as Jefferson once said, the purpose of public education is "... To enable every man to judge for himself what will secure or endanger his freedom."