[dre85]

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things.

I found the article really well written and I think a lot of people will be able to relate to it. Consideration for our partners and compromise is a tricky and interesting domain. I'm realizing more and more that there can be a lot of complexity behind benign everyday situations like a dirty cup beside the sink. Like how can a dirty dish even perturb somebody so much in the first place? Is it related to some trauma or childhood conditioning? Can it be addressed somehow?

[mensetmanusman]

Here is one strategy that I enjoy:

Start a notes checklist on your phone of what you could have done to prevent the situation in the first place.

It will grow to probably over 40-50 things over the course of two months. And you will start to realize as you read the list the types of themes that are upsetting and stressful to her.

This has helped but your mileage may vary, it is illuminating though…

[the_omegist]

Wait. He is saying her demands are neverending and you advise him to keep a list of his failures to guess them ?

[mensetmanusman]

It’s not a list of failures, but a list of ideals, e.g. if she gets mad about tripping over your towel, you might write:

-always hang up towel after use

A relationship is like building a house, you can build one with out a ruler, but it will probably be more stable if you use a rule®.

These ideas/rules aren’t all equally important, but they provide a rule for straightening out or constructing a more stable house.

Note: this is related to a whole topic of life satisfaction and rules :)

[the_omegist]

Thanks for the clarification...but you qualifying her demands as "ideals" clearly shows you're taking one of them as being perfect and always-right and the other as needing to be re-educated. This is not a solid foundation for a relationship, to take your house metaphor.

A towel should not be left on the floor, anyone can agree, but on less obvious topics none of them can be credited as the unique source of Truth.

[mensetmanusman]

I should have noted that they are her ideals, not necessarily yours.

However if you strive to be her ideal man, it’s still worthwhile to know what those are :)

[webmobdev]

> At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things.

If you are not the one with the issues, then it sounds like your wife may be an Obsessive Compulsive Personality Type - this type of personality has a need for orderliness, neatness, perfectionism and mental and interpersonal control. Basically, their thinking is that they have "figured out" a process for doing something, and if that process is not followed to the dot, it will not result in the desired optimal / perfect result (this causes them anxiety, which makes them feel that they are losing control over their life / relationship, and they become even more obsessed and compulsive to "regain" control).

They are a bit difficult to live with, even if they can be really wonderful, caring and loving human beings. Often some counselling for anxiety (consider cognitive behaviour therapy), and insights into how their unrealistic expectation and actions can be troubling in a relationship can often make them more empathetic to the other person in a relationship, and smooth things over.

(Be wary, as my assumptions about your wife could be quite wrong. Best to consult a therapist).

[dre85]

Yes, I think you're quite right with the OCD type personality. The communication about these various minor things does also tend to increase when she's more stressed/anxious.

I feel like it's generally under control and we mostly have a good balance/compromise established, but I could be totally wrong, just like the article author!

[Twounwhe]

> I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless.

> Like how can a dirty dish even perturb somebody so much in the first place? Is it related to some trauma or childhood conditioning? Can it be addressed somehow?

Well, yes, sometimes "irrational" things are indicative of a deeper issue, e.g. Dad told me Mom left because I was messy, and if I keep things tidy I can keep people from leaving me and I will be OK.

Perhaps she's going through a rough patch, and this "I need a tidy environment" is how she's able to express it. Maybe she feels ignored/neglected/etc, and this is how she's able to express it. And it could be that you've dictated that things must go your way in other areas of the house/relationship, and here is where she feels comfortable asking that she not need to walk on eggshells, for things to be her way for once.

One thing to remember is that each of us has "irrational" requests when seen from the outside, regardless of how logical and reasonable they seem to us. Having a heart-to-heart where you both sit down with the mindset of "us vs the problem" could determine the root, which is the first step towards finding a true solution.

[AussieWog93]

>Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things.

I don't understand the complaint here. It sounds like your wife is trying to get you, incrementally, to act like a responsible adult. This is what a good partner does.

The more interesting question is why you want to remain living like a slob in a messy environment?

[s1artibartfast]

>I don't understand the complaint here. It sounds like your wife is trying to get you, incrementally, to act like a responsible adult

The fundamental conflict is that the person and their wife's goals are not aligned.

If the husband does not want to develop into a "responsible adult" in this respect, their goals are not aligned. A good partner can help the other achieve their goals, but but if there is no alignment on the who one partner wants to be and work towards, this will always be a source of conflict.

[coldtea]

>The fundamental conflict is that the person and their wife's goals are not aligned.

It would be that, if all goals were equally good and individual taste was the ultimate criterium (which in some cultures are, not always the best ones).

Otherwise not wanting to "devel into a responsible adult" doesn't sound like an issue of "conflict of goals" (any more than one parent being an absentee parent would merely be a "conflict of goals" as opposed to a problem), but a development issue.

[s1artibartfast]

Some people just don't want to develop into an adult or be responsible parents. You can call this a development issue, but at some point it is also a problem of partner selection. If your partner has no interest in resolving their issues to your satisfaction, you are in for a rocky relationship continually dragging them Kicking and Screaming into something they do not want.

At some point, your partners development issue becomes your own partner selection and compatibility problem.

[coldtea]

>Some people just don't want to develop into an adult or be responsible parents.

Yes. And it's fine to consider this a problem, and criticize them for it, is my point.

[s1artibartfast]

If it's not impacting you, I don't really see the point in passing judgement or criticism. If it does impact you, I think you have to ask why you want to be with who doest share your goals. Forcing change on an unwilling partner is a loosing battle for all involved

[dre85]

Fair enough, although I think the term "slob" is a bit extreme here. I would say that I'm just not very into what I would call "organization for the sake of organization". For example:

1. As the author already mentions, why put a cup into the dishwasher if you plan on using it again?

2. Why fold and put away my pants if I wear the same pants everyday for a week?

3. Why hang my jacket if I know I'm leaving again in an hour

4. Why make the bed at all ever? (making the bed is its own topic of insanity IMO)

Etc etc etc

I think I just value and emphasize what I consider efficiency (perhaps laziness?).

[AussieWog93]

>I think the term "slob" is a bit extreme here

>I wear the same pants everyday for a week

I have nothing more to say. :P

(In all seriousness, maybe have a chat with people you trust about general smell/hygeine. Dental shit especially is something so many grown adults get completely wrong. Not everyone notices it, but there's a damn good reason I go out of my way to sit next to black people on the train! :P).

> I think I just value and emphasize what I consider efficiency (perhaps laziness?).

Serisously, though, I think that's what great about having a partner. In the eyes of some random dickhead on the internet, at least, you make a fair point on (1) and (3), but (2) and (4) are maybe things your partner's value system handles better.

[thebean11]

Pants do not smell after 5 days of wearing them at your desk..

[what_ever]

You should check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6gu_ABMvzA. You don't need to wash your pants that often. Specially if stay somewhere there is not dust and areas are not dirty.

[coldtea]

Considering 1-4, the term slob might not be that extreme :)

[escapedmoose]

Yep. Good partners push us to be better, healthier people. It’s absurd how many people in this thread are writing off taking responsibility as mental illness.

[dre85]

I agree with the first point which is definitely a blessing even if we can't see it directly.

To the second point I would argue (and I unfortunately do argue) that "responsibility" can be a vague and subjective term. Like is it a hard-coded responsibility to make your bed every morning? Some would argue yes and use funny arguments like "ask anyone normal" or "all highly intelligent/successful people do it". I would say it's generally a waste of time unless you're bed is so off that you can't comfortably get back into it.

[AussieWog93]

>I would say it's generally a waste of time unless you're bed is so off that you can't comfortably get back into it.

I think the point about making the bed is that it takes all of 30 seconds and makes the entire room look significantly more orderly. One of the highest-ROI cleaning tasks, in terms of time spent vs. tidiness gained.

[zelphirkalt]

The actual reason to make ones bed is to let air circulate in the parts of the bed, that potentialy have been sweaty all night, which increases hygiene. At least in my book that is the main reason. Secondary reason might be, that it is nicer to let oneself fall into a nicely made bed at night. Third might be, that it looks more orderly.

[caylus]

> The actual reason to make ones bed is to let air circulate in the parts of the bed

I don't follow - doesn't making a bed involve covering the bottom sheet and mattress cover, which is likely what absorbed the most sweat, with the top sheet and blankets, which would block the airflow to it?

When I need to air out my bed, I push the blanket and top sheet over to the side opposite the side I slept, which makes it look messier, not nicely made.

[TedDoesntTalk]

He said that’s one of an endless list of items that grows each week. 30 seconds to make a bed is just the start.

[AussieWog93]

I assumed the "endless" list was more hyperbole than an actual endless. The concrete examples he gave were all habits he should have grown out of by his late teens.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I’ve read all your comments on this, dre85, and just want to say we are similarly aligned. And I’m recently divorced. Our misalignment of cleanliness was a big part of it, but not all. Hypocrisy was there; for example she trained me to make my bed every day. But she rarely made hers (we did not share the same bed in the last 2-3 years before it ended). That’s just one instance, there were others.

I relate to what you said about an endless list of these things. It’s nearly impossible. And once you think you’ve got them all down, there’s another one to remember.

I would ask you to examine how forgiving she is when you forget to complete one of her tasks. Does she explode? Get out of that relationship. Is she accepting that you’re not perfect? Ok, she’s someone you can work with.

Good luck. Seriously.

[the_omegist]

I wished your comment was satire until the last word...

[drugstorecowboy]

Take a moment and look up Borderline Personality Disorder. "Walking on Eggshells" is a gigantic red flag. I suspect it might change your whole perspective.