[it_does_follow]

My guess is this is ultimately about money.

Facebook/Meta stock lost 30% of it's value a few months back and may not recover any time soon.

Many of these people are high level, so I'm guessing (based on a quick skim of levels.fyi) about 50% or more of their TC comes from stock.

This amounts to an effective 15% pay cut in a year with record inflation.

I think most of us would leave our job over a 15% pay cut, especially if we were well established in the field. On top of this it loosens those golden handcuffs quite a bit for anyone who was on the fence about being employed by facebook, but couldn't say no to the comp.

[gumby]

A lot of folks get into a zone where the money no longer matters, as long as it’s in a range where you don’t have to think about it. Still they might leave simply because they’ve been there a while, or want a change, or want to work with some particular people who are at a different organization.

Not to say that some might be motivated by money, but at that level I would be surprised if it motivated many.

[time_to_smile]

I find this is true for me, but I ultimately don't work for a FAANG because the money isn't that important to me and there are many things about FAANG companies I don't like. However I don't think this generalizes well for people who do aggressively pursue careers at FAANG companies.

My experience has been that most of the people I know that work for FAANG are extremely TC conscious, that's a large part of why they work at a FAANG in the first place and the source of a non-trivial amount of their self worth. If you look around the comments on Blind (a biased source for sure, but certainly a non-zero part of the community) you'll find plenty of people where TC is all that matters.

I interviewed at FB a few years ago and one thing that surprised me when I asked "what's your favorite thing about working here?" I got the same answer from everyone I talked to: the compensation/benefits. I thought for sure the answers would involve working on hard problems at scale, having incredible amounts of data etc. However without fail every interviewer immediately pointed out their comp and other perks as their primary motivator for working there.

In general I would say that people that make a lot of money, make a lot of money because making a lot of money is important to them.

[015a]

This idea that "eventually you make enough where money doesn't matter anymore" is a meme that couldn't be more wrong. Its the kind of thing said by someone who has never made that much money, but who is extrapolating their current relationship with money to a compensation multiples higher; then saying "well if I can live on $X right now, then the Y in $X+Y wouldn't matter, so money must not matter (past some level) (and, coincidentally, that level is always somewhere around what I make) (weird how it always works out like that, right?)".

You can say that it shouldn't matter; that a $200k salary decrease to someone making seven figures shouldn't matter, because they're rich and they can take it. Maybe that's a correct assertion; that it shouldn't matter. But: it does.

Money always matters. Money always matters. Money always matters.

[kakwa_]

Well, personally, I'm in a situation where I struggle to spend more than half of what I earn, including my mortgage repayment.

I'm not a cheap person, if I need to spend money on something, I will. It's just that my life style and affinities mean I'm not spending much.

I'm not much of a fashion guy, so no huge collection of expensive clothes.

Nor am I a car guy (I don't even currently own one, and if I were to have one again in the future, it would simply be a tool).

When I travel, the destination is often decided at the last moment, and I'm more of a backpack kind of guy.

When I buying something somewhat expensive (price ~$1000 or more), I'm always evaluating the usefulness of the thing, for example, I kind of want to replace my folk guitar but in fairness, I rarely play my current one, and it's not like this will change with a nicer one (I also have two very nice electric guitars I've not touched in years).

Simply put, partly out of how I was brought-up, partly out of some ecological-consciousness, I do not buy something simply because I can.

Also, regarding this part:

> Its the kind of thing said by someone who has never made that much money

When I make this statement, opposition comes far more often from people "who have never made that much money". My friends with similar or greater earnings get my point of view, even if they don't have the same views, but my friends with lower incomes generally strongly disagree with this kind of view.

[BeetleB]

> Money always matters. Money always matters. Money always matters

Except when it doesn't.

A Principal Engineer at my company, could easily increase his salary 20-50% by moving to a FAANG, and can do Leetcode problems in his head, doesn't move. Because he has more independence here and can work on more interesting problems here.

He grew up in relative poverty. He already gets paid a lot. It's enough for him.

[hnaccount_rng]

Well that's not true... at least not for me. I'm not even at the point of earning excessive amounts of money (research scientist at a german university E13, so about 60kEur). And already now I don't care enough about money to have it influence where I'm thinking about applying...

[MrMan]

I went for years not thinking about money, not negotiating or worrying about comp, and making enough that I didn't need to worry or think about it, I just wrote code and did research. It is definitely a thing

[wenc]

I think this is to some extent personality-dependent and not as universal as you posit.

I somewhat fall into the demographic you describe but find myself not really caring about maximizing TC because I’m working on interesting and meaningful problems. (I would never be interested in working on adtech or infosec even for double my pay — I’m just not interested in those areas.)

I have met many in tech whose game is maximizing TC. They’re very vocal but I don’t know if they represent everyone.

[chaostheory]

For Silicon Valley, especially in Silicon Valley, this mindset doesn’t always hold true. It’s one of the quirks of the region and the people there.

[gumby]

Until the dot com era money really wasn’t much of a “thing” here (SV), and you’re right: even now it’s more of an SF thing, but has infected the Valley too.

[imtringued]

I don't really care. I only need money to meet certain goals, that's all. The money obsessed me is long dead.

[nautilius]

Not true for me either.

[thebean11]

I'm not sure, I can't imagine feeling that way. The jump from $500k to $650k, or 1mil to 1.2mil, would still feel pretty significant, in terms of cash hitting your bank account.

[gumby]

Honestly, many many people feel that way. I have been there most of my working life.

When you don’t make enough to make ends meet, or to do so comfortably, sure, fixing that situation is going to be very important to you.

But once you have what you need to live the life you want, why not simply live the life you want? One of my closest friends has been at google for almost 20 years. He doesn’t want to be promoted because he likes his job and his coworkers.

OTOH if money is your thing, that’s OK too.

[mywittyname]

Depending on levels of investment, those amounts are close to month-to-month portfolio variance.

[thebean11]

Sure, in my mind those wouldn't connect though.

[bitcharmer]

I don't think this is correct. I'm lucky enough to be on a level where turning down a 100k increase in salary is something that I have to routinely do because my current job ticks so many boxes and I genuinely love it and don't have to risk it for that amount.

[thebean11]

I'm not saying these people wouldn't take a six figure pay cut for a job they like better. Just saying a six figure increase can still be pretty significant and material.

[caymanjim]

Once your basic needs are taken care of, inflation at current levels is irrelevant. I'm by no means rich. By HN standards I have an average income. If not for the daily news stories about it, I wouldn't even know there was any inflation bubble right now. The top AI people at Meta make a substantial multiple of what I make. They might be leaving for more money, but it has absolutely nothing to do with inflation.

People at that salary level usually leave for other reasons, like not wanting to work for such a morally bankrupt company whose sole purpose is selling ads.

[throwawayboise]

Genuine question, when you shop for groceries do you not look at prices at all and just buy what you want and tap your phone at the checkout?

Because to me, it seems impossible to not notice the inflation in food prices over the past year. It hasn't really changed my life, but it's very noticable that prices are going up.

[caymanjim]

No, I almost never look at prices for food. If there were no prices printed on food, it wouldn't change my shopping habits one bit. I do sometimes notice deals that are prominently displayed, like "50% off!" or "2-for-1!" and take advantage of that. If I'm ordering online instead of in-person, the grocery store's UI helpfully points out when there are coupons, and I'll use that. If it's something where I don't care at all what brand I get, I'll buy the store brand knowing that it's cheaper. But I never intentionally look at prices for the purpose of saving money. I don't know what a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread costs.

I know this is "privilege", but it's emphasizing my point, which is that these top AI engineers making 3-10x as much as me certainly aren't worrying about inflation.

[BeetleB]

> Because to me, it seems impossible to not notice the inflation in food prices over the past year. It hasn't really changed my life, but it's very noticable that prices are going up.

I earn significantly less than a FAANG employee, and I agree with GP. From groceries alone, I'd never have known we had inflation. The only increase in prices that I did notice on my own is that eating out has gotten more expensive. And that's because many meals I would have for under $10 have magically hit $10+ - a notable boundary point, and the price point where I start thinking twice about "convenience" lunches.

[junipertea]

I make 6 figures. I honestly do not look at food prices when I shop. It's a negligible expense after rent, savings and mortgage.

[andreilys]

If you pay rent, then you should be aware of the inflation bubble.

[BeetleB]

Depends on the city you live in. Rent here has been going up for a long time - even when inflation was near zero. So for locals, the rent increase alone is not an indicator of inflation.

[treyfitty]

Rent is agreed upon in 1/2+ year leases. So, no. You can pay a fixed rate stipulated just before inflation.

[caymanjim]

When people refer to "inflation" without any additional modifiers, they're generally referring to the Consumer Price Index numbers released by the government. When the news reports that "inflation is at a 40 year high" or "inflation is at 6%", that is based on the CPI. The CPI does not include housing costs. The most visible single component of the CPI for most people is the cost of gasoline. That's the only thing that I've personally noticed costing more.

[ahahahahah]

That was stated surprisingly confidently. It's entirely wrong though, the CPI does include housing costs. I don't know why you would single out gasoline as "most visible", but I guess that gives you flexibility to claim that your real meaning is whatever you want. Gasoline prices actually (currently) impact CPI about half as much as food prices and one tenth as much as shelter costs.

You can see more here: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t01.htm

[throwawaygh]

It's not a money thing. It's a mindset thing.

I am fairly senior and make tons of money. The ratio of income to my annual grocery bill is stupid. Also, I eat mostly salads and meat is not my most common protein source. Groceries could go up 10x and fluctuation in my investments would still grossly dwarf .

But one of my earliest memories is my mother crying at the ATM because the checking account was over-drawn and there was no food at home (by the time I was in high school we were much better off than most, but the treatment effect stuck -- my younger sibling and I think about money in very different ways. Crazy what a $2K savings buffer can do). I then spent a good part of my early adult life stressing about affording food & choosing between rent and desired groceries.

I still stress over every single thing that goes in the grocery basket, for absolutely not rational reason. In particular, I don't stress about e.g. restaurant bills. Why? Because the times in my life when food was scarce do not overlap with times I was in restaurants as a patron.

The grocery store in particular is a source of psychological terror for many Americans at one point or another in their lives, and those memories are visceral.

[octoberfranklin]

Thank you for sharing this.

It's not on the level of food insecurity, but I see a ton of comments in this thread by people who obviously are too young to remember the dot-com bust of 2001.

I was just out of school in 1999 and can vividly recall one of the senior engineers warning me, with mortal seriousness in his eyes, "it isn't always like this". I also remember having absolutely no fucking clue what he was talking about, except on the most superficial level. He was then just about the age that I am now.

Winter is coming.

[glenstein]

>Facebook/Meta stock lost 30% of it's value a few months back and may not recover any time soon.

I think a significant driver of that was the tightening screws re: criticism and pending federal investigation.

The brand reinvention was in the context of changing perceptions that could culminate in existential threats to the company. There is no good way out of it, but changing the conversation from "Break up facebook" to "gee that Meta sure is weird", is a mixed success, and exchanging catastrophe for mixed success made quite a bit of sense as a strategy.