[nopenopenopeno]

The only way that’s going to happen with an empirical world order (the United States) is either by full-fledged political revolution or war with a competing power.

The American state prioritizes corporate interests by design. This is how industrial capitalism works and always has worked. And the EU is a dependent of the US, not an alternative to it.

The Western neoliberal consensus of the past half-century has caused people to forget how power works, and nowhere is that more clear than in these utopian calls for regulation on Hacker News.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Capitalism or a society. Pick one.

[ethbr0]

Without derailing too far, how would you explain the existence of work hour limits and workplace protection regulations?

[nopenopenopeno]

All of them were won by fierce mass labor movements, which were then aggressively suppressed and wiped from the curriculums during the McCarthyist era, prior to the neoliberal era. And those hard-won protections have been eroding ever since. These things don’t just fall from the sky.

Since you mention “work hour limits”, look up the Haymarket Strike in Chicago that won the 40 hour work week for private employees in the US, but not before police shot and killed 4 peacefully striking workers.

[ethbr0]

Yes. That's what the rough and tumble reality of freedom in a democracy looks like.

> You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Capitalism or a society. Pick one.

You can have both. It just comes with people giving a shit and putting their lives and careers on the line in an organized fashion.

Which seems like a bargain, given the only alternatives have collapsed into "neither."

[nopenopenopeno]

If getting shot to death for not working is freedom then what do you consider slavery?

If organized workers withholding their collective labor to exercise power over the means of production is capitalism, then what do you consider socialism?

[ethbr0]

> If getting shot...

Not answering a strawman.

> If organized workers withholding their collective labor to exercise power over the means of production is capitalism, then what do you consider socialism?

Worker organization being mandatory and controlled by a bureaucracy, as opposed to freely opted in, from among a diverse set of independent options.

[nicoburns]

> The Western neoliberal consensus of the past half-century > You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Capitalism or a society. Pick one.

I think what we're seeing here is the breakdown of the neo-liberal consensus, and at least the specific form of capitalism that comes with it. We see this on both the left and the right (consider that neither Trump nor Sanders support neo-liberalism). It's still the status quo for now, but even amongst the mainstream of the mainstream I'm seeing a waning of support. That hasn't been followed by actions yet, but I think it's only a matter of time.

There seems to be broad recognition that these companies have too much control on our lives, and I expect a wave of regulation of things like consent for tracking, interoperability between services and right to repair to come through soon. Probably first in the EU with the US following. The GDPR has shown that it's possible, and already completely changed the conversation around data retention.

[nopenopenopeno]

How is that regulation going to happen? What mechanisms of power are going to oversee such a thing? With all due respect, I think you have everything right except for this. I think you’re dreaming. These kinds of blessings don’t just fall from the sky.