[LargoLasskhyfv]

You know? Maybe a few dozen standard sized and broad/wide necked tops made out of laboratory grade glass would do. That stuff is almost indestructible and does not leach or take on anything in the concentrations used for food/drink stuff. Not even tea or coffee stains! So there is the question of the returns. Why returning when you could have a refill machine in store which could clean them fast in safe ways before refilling? For anything more than a few bottles, use reusable kegs and plug them into an appliance at home? Or those watercooler canisters? I recently saw milk in a plastic bag again, like it has been about 40 years ago?

Interestingly that bag wasn't sloppy or wobbly at all, because on one side it had a handle, which felt like it was inflated with something, which made it stiff. Still one time use only, though less material.

[9dev]

For reference, this is what we do with beer bottles in Germany. There’s two standard bottle types which you can return to shops, which take any brand, as long as it’s the standard type. They return them to a cleaning facility which distributes them back to the breweries (extremely simplified, there’s lots of details like a mandatory deposit on reusable bottles consumers pay to incentivise returning them to stores). But basically, bottles get reused as long as they’re usable. It works quite well!

[LargoLasskhyfv]

Nopetynope. I don't remember where exactly anymore because I rarely buy beer, but I think it was Lidl where I returned some Tsingtao bottles and heard the machine crushing them, thinking WTF?!

Edit: I know this isn't true for every glass bottle, but it happens. There are one way glass bottles in .de

Which you still have to return, to get the 8 or 15 cents(don't know exactly) back if you care.

[9dev]

Yeah, there are some intricacies as I said, didn't want to turn this into a long-form essay (because that's what you need to describe anything formalised in Germany). Lidl doesn't participate in the bottle sharing initiative as far as I know for example; differently-shaped, one-way bottles are definitely a thing; and sometimes, there are deposit machines that for some reason don't accept a local brewery, although they should.

But all in all, this system definitely ensures at least a big part of German bottles are actually reused multiple times.

[LargoLasskhyfv]

K, but what I really meant to say was rather why do the bottle return thing at all, if you could have a few standard bottles which last decades, and fill them at the store, supermarket, etc. from kegs, canisters, and return only those, instead of single bottles?

Edit: where the kegs/canisters take the part of standardized liquid containers, as it is common in gastronomy already?

Just need to have a machine which can do the refills from store to longlife bottle quickly and clean at the store.

Editedit: Trying a braindump, from my impressions over the past decades, even long before "Grüner Punkt" and other return systems, just regarding bottles.

In larger supermarkets, and stores specializing in selling bottled stuff, there are always large areas for the returns, inside and outside. All for gathering and storing that stuff, to send it back to whereever and whenever. Sometimes with larger forklifts, stacking pallets/boxes 3 storeys high. (about 9 to 12 pallets, or boxes)

This is the cult of the bottle! Make work!

[vestrigi]

So you mean local bottling at each store with standard bottles? I like the idea, but the challenges are quite tough. - No branding/consumer information possible on the bottle - carbonized beverages can‘t just be poured in free air like juice or milk, a large facility is needed - beverage stores would have to pump dozens of different beverages through one machine, that would always mix a little bit of the last filling - that facility must follow strict hygiene requirements which makes it expensive

[LargoLasskhyfv]

Let's ignore the machines for a while(waves hands...). I think that is possible. Think of the the ones giving all sorts of coffee in a cup, but also soups, like in some companies canteens.

I've thought about the carbonizing thing. Let's say there are glass cylinders of common sizes and proportions, made out of light, and nearly indestructible laboratory glassware. Everybody has a few of them, like knife, fork and spoon, kitchenware, and so on. Why not have the cylinder open on the top, with a screw thread?

Several sorts of caps precisely fitting onto that thread, sealed when latched on? Then there could be a module like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codd-neck_bottle for anything sparkling as the 'cap' being screwed and latched onto that cylinder. As one of many options. Think bottle lego! :-)

As for the branding, consumer information? Some sort of e-paper, or some RFID with a little bit of storage would surely do? (Also modular, so you can either change it, without throwing away the base bottle in case of defect, or vice versa. Because shit always happens)

Edit: Thinking further about it, It vaguely seems this could also be applied to most stuff which ships in tin cans. Like soups, Ravioli, and so on.

Editedit: Regarding the large facility...These already exist for baking pre-baked stuff, so you have the illusion of freshness.

It could also save a massive amount of store space because there could be one area with all sorts of filling stations, with the canisters plugged in behind the scenes. Instead of having rows of rows of stacked bottles or tin cans which need to be restocked continuosly.

Regarding deliveries, could be similar. All the "ghost kitchens' having such systems, filling those common containers with their common caps, from a common pool.

The small modular bottles for consumers just shuttling back and forth locally/regionally in that pool, while the larger ones only making it back and forth between delivery hubs and producers. No matter if Supermarket or delivery from some 'ghost kitchen'.

Phew! I'll leave it at that :-)

Editeditedit: Err, nope! Can't stop! Cold Plasma like in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonthermal_plasma for disinfection! (Maybe)

[thomasguide]

Plastic American-style milk bottles are funnily enough one of the only easily recycled plastics, if I am remembering correctly.

Standardized glass containers would be useful, although in some ways already exist (mason jars usually accept common lids, for instance).

What we need is a shift in mentality away from a plastic-first approach.

“I’ve got one word for you kid: glass.”

[ASalazarMX]

> Plastic American-style milk bottles are funnily enough one of the only easily recycled plastics, if I am remembering correctly.

I don't know about the recyclability of those plastics, but I wouldn't be surprised. They're basically two pieces of plastic screwed together without any seal, and it works well enough!