[hutzlibu]

The thing is, if you treat all the russian people as enemies, than they will in fact all become your enemies. If some oligarchs were (secretly) opposing Putin before - then this is the way to bind them to Putin.

"It is not possible to straddle the middle and try to apply the same sets of rules to every actor"

And this would be, how justice is supposed to work. Apply the same rules to every actor. Otherwise it is not justice and you loose every credibility, when you claim to wage wars in the name of "justice". It becomes just a meaningless word and you no different from the bad guys.

"and celebrate our allies"

So hooray to the great rulers of Saudi Arabia and co. May they live long and prosper, bomb the shit out of their enemies in Yemen(370000+ deaths so far) and stone their own women to death, if they dare to speak up and disobey.

[scrollaway]

> if you treat all the russian people as enemies

Let's be extremely clear: Russian people are not the enemy. Very few people here in Europe think this, and those who do are mostly the xenophobic assholes who enjoy thinking anyone who isn't them is the enemy anyway.

Oligarchs are Putin's keys to power. Sanctioning them is a way to hurt Putin's power and influence, which has a chance to bring the war to an end. Not sanctioning them because "oh there's a chance maybe one of them actually doesn't like the guy" is an idiotic move.

[hutzlibu]

"Not sanctioning them because "oh there's a chance maybe one of them actually doesn't like the guy" is an idiotic move. "

Given recent russian history of fights between Putin and various oligarchs - I rather think it would be a idiotic move to target them all without due process - because the chances are actually quite high, that many of them oppose Putin.

[scrollaway]

We're not imprisoning them, we're freezing their riches. This gets more of them to oppose Putin. And several are now having to come out publicly speaking against him.

This is how we're helping a coup d'état happen. It's a good and solid strategy. A lot is riding on this.

[hutzlibu]

"We're not imprisoning them, we're freezing their riches"

Ok, I would be somewhat fine with it, if it is only "freezing". But still not without some form of process, that shows links of them to the government, or support/benefit of the war. Because otherwise this sets a (further) dangerous precedent. There was something called, "rule of the law".

[scrollaway]

Pray tell, where is the rule of the law not being respected? Call out specific examples if this is where your problem with this lies.

But need I remind you, we are at war, with an enemy committing war crimes every day and absolutely not respecting any "rule of the law". When you're up against fair adversaries, it's right to call for a fair fight. When you're up against somebody who's getting dangerously close to getting us into a nuclear war, it's ok to take some damn shortcuts.

Fat good the "long term consequences" of not having followed proper procedures will do us if half of Europe is irradiated. As we say in France, "there are largers cats to whip". I don't care, I live in Brussels, well within the blast zone.

[hutzlibu]

"we are at war"

Erm, no we are not. Russia is at war with the ukraine, but not with the EU, nor the USA. So maybe do not escalate?

"where is the rule of the law not being respected"

Where is it? It is not the case btw. that there is a title called "oligarchs". What all of this means in its current shape, is targeting simply rich russian people. Now sure, chances are quite high, that they got to their wealth through crime, but law does not usually operate on cliches.

"with an enemy committing war crimes every day"

And as far as I can tell, way more horrible are being done in Yemen for example since 2014 with no one giving a shit about it.

[detaro]

and the reasons given for adding them to the sanctions list are not "some form of process"? (We can certainly argue if the process is sufficient, but targeted sanctions against named individuals is not the same as just grabbing everything with a russian name on it. And yes, some people are complaining that governments actually insist on proving that things belong to sanctioned people before acting, but "some people are complaining" is not the same as policy and what actually happens)