[ordu]

> These men are known in Russia as the “siloviki” — “men of force”, or perhaps even, in the Irish phrase, “hard men”.

Just to clarify. The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force", or less literally but preserving some meaning "armed organizations" (maybe "armed forces", but I think that in English "armed forces" doesn't include the likes of police and security guards). It refers to police, military or any other organization with a dress code that requires a gun.

[huhtenberg]

"siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police). That's it.

[trhway]

Good news - as result of Ukraine war failure these lowlifes are starting to eat each other - the director of foreign intelligence of FSB has just got arrested for "embezzling money intended for sabotage and gathering of intelligence in Ukraine and for providing false information about political situation in Ukraine" :)

From https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-... :

"Meanwhile, panic appears to be setting in within Putin’s inner circle, with the Russian leader allegedly firing eight generals and putting the head of his FSB spy arm Sergei Beseda and his deputy under house arrest"

Russian: https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/11/zhurnalist-andrey-soldatov...

All that while 3 generals have already been killed in Ukraine in addition to uncounted number of officers with no major military success. That is bound to cause "friction" between various arms of the "siloviki". There is also a large fight brewing between FSB and Chechens (they have been in "cold war" state) as large convoy of Chechen forces in Ukraine was completely destroyed by Ukrainians based on information that seems to had been leaked by FSB.

[tartoran]

Putin surrounded himself with yes men. These people are afraid to displease Putin and end up taking shortcuts left and right to give him what he wants. Only fear is keeping this system from crumbling, they’re all afraid of eachother.

“ Soldierov told the British Times that it could well be that the FSB had realistic knowledge of the situation in Ukraine - the only question was what was passed on to Putin.

"The problem lies in the fact that it is often risky for those responsible to tell Putin things that he doesn't want to hear," Soldierov said.”

[0] https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-03-11-putin-is-said-to-have-pu...

[trhway]

Anybody who watched just some Ukrainian TV (I like Zelensky's humor production) in recent years knew it, no need for whole spy agency. Of course they told Putin what he wanted to hear.

[JudasGoat]

"Putin surrounded himself with yes men." This is an interesting article from an alledged fsb employee that backs that statement. https://noteplan.co/n/3D073DDB-CB0F-4ABC-BC93-01A94141445B

[just-ok]

“sila” is strength, not power. Power is “vlast.”

[richardknop]

Are you sure about that? I know Google Translate says "vlast" but I speak a Slavic language and "vlast" means motherhood/home in my language. Could be just the online translation not being accurate?

[pandaman]

Tons of "false friends" between Slavic languages. E.g. "urod" could mean "beauty" in some and "freak" in others. In Russian "sila" means primarily "force" or "strength" and in the context of "siloviki" it refers to the armed forces and law enforcement as the top of this thread states.

[justsomehnguy]

> Google Translate

Thanks for the laugh. An automated translation tools, especially dumbed down online ones, never work right because they don't have a context or a means to provide it.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0#Russ...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8...

[polishdude20]

In Polish, Sila is strength as well.

[jagrsw]

Technically (physically) it's force (as in SI's F).

[polishdude20]

Oh that makes sense! I'm thinking back to how people say "On jest silny" as in "He is strong" I wouldn't say "He is force"

[4cao]

He's right, for the most part. I think the Czech cognate would be vláda, with a somewhat closer meaning.

[4cao]

I think "force" would be the best translation in this context.

[zoomablemind]

> ...The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force"...

"siloviki" => members/heads of the law enforcement and security agencies, read "enforcers". But "hard men" passes the forceful connotation well enough.

[twelve40]

yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described, except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a gun, are also included.

[ordu]

Well, FSB is an intelligence agency, and they wear guns or at least have a license to wear gun.

Though I cannot argue. I rely on my intuitive knowledge of Russian which is hard to use as a rational argument. This knowledge tells me that "силовые структуры"/"structures of force" are organizations that use force to solve problems. And I think that all of them wear guns. But I may be wrong with that last statement, and moreover language is changing, so the generally accepted meaning of the word can differ from what I had learnt in my childhood.

[HWR_14]

> FSB is an intelligence agency,

They are also a military branch and have military ranks, although they don't wear uniforms. The FSB acts like a combination of FBI, a border patrol and secret police.

They are also the group allowed to carry out an assassination on foreign soil (according to Russian law), although they are not allowed to authorize such a mission on their own.

[Koshkin]

> FSB is an intelligence agency

It is a security agency, a.k.a. the “secret police.” (It does, of course, spy on the populace.)

[stjohnswarts]

Basically the Stasi of Russia, no?

[andy-x]

FSB is former KGB, so indeed it is Stasi, but KGB may be even more familiar name from those times.

[outside1234]

They are, in fact, what the Stasi were modeled after.

[qiskit]

We get what you are trying to say, but people carry guns, they don't wear guns.

[harshreality]

Gun carry (or more specific open or concealed carry) is the more popular phrase, due to the popularity of EDC (every day carry) as a phrase covering everything from guns to knives to keychains; however, "wear" is not a linguistic mistake, but an alternative to "carry".

"Wear" differentiates from things that you carry in your hands or pockets or a bag. Things that are part of your dress, like watches, ties, and handguns in holsters, are more "worn" than "carried", though it could be either.

[stjohnswarts]

Pedantry that isn't needed. Offering such things is unneeded unless someone is asking for better wording.

[SkinTaco]

What were you hoping the readers of your comment would gain from your comment?

Apologies if this comes off abrasively. This is a genuine question that thought to myself when I read your comment. I can't think of a better way to phrase it.

[qiskit]

Edification. Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound right. Was assuming the commenter was a non-native english speaker and was helping him out.

[benatkin]

I'm a native english speaker and I think you're mistaken. Both are correct. "Wear a gun" is less common but carries an important distinction.

I like this usage right here:

> A gun holster is an accessory which is designed to allow someone to wear a gun on his or her body.

https://www.wise-geek.com/what-is-a-gun-holster.htm

[js2]

I’m a native U.S. English speaker and I didn’t think twice about “wear a gun”. People absolutely say that. It’s not even pedantically incorrect:

2 (b) to carry on the person; wear a sword

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=bks

[qiskit]

> I’m a native U.S. English speaker and I didn’t think twice about “wear a gun”.

Maybe it's regional. I've never heard it said that way before. "Are you wearing a gun"? "Concealed wearing laws"? Doesn't sound right, but I guess people do use it.

Don't cops ask "Do you have a gun on you" or "Are you carrying?". I think most of us would find it weird if a cop asked us "Are you wearing a gun?".

[dragonwriter]

> Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound right.

Native speaker, I have heard other native speakers say (or seen them write) “wear a gun” quite a bit. “Carry” seems to be more currently common, but far from exclusive.

[_jal]

"Carry a gun" ngram frequency:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=carry+a+gun&ye...

"Wear a gun":

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=wear+a+gun&yea...

Shorter: "Carry" is about twice as popular as "wear".

[ithkuil]

Learning a nuance of the English language that non-native speakers may lack (and be curious to learn)?

[adamc]

Right, in English "wear" generally means something you can "put on" and you can't "put a gun on" either.

Although you can put on a holster. ;-)

[shkkmo]

Although, in this case specifically, "wear a gun" is pretty common place and doesn't sound out if place at all.

I think this may come down to regional dialect differences, but it doesn't make this pedant look good (and I generally love pedants.)

[thanatos519]

"other organization with a dress code that requires a gun" ⇒ mafia.

[watwut]

Not all mafia have dress code. Some do, but it is not norm or anything.

[benatkin]

A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the same way the unlicense is a license.

I think that undercover or plainclothes in most cases has enough rules that it constitutes a dress code, even if you think a dress code needs to have rules about more than one article of clothing to be considered a dress code.

[watwut]

Afaik, mafia does not require gun and holster on you typically. Plus, in situation where you have to have one, it is closer to requirement to have a tool with you then dress code.

I don't understand why the need to twist mafia into dress code group. Russian mafia is know entity, so is albanian one. Ukraine mafia exists too. It is just that, dress code is not what would be associated with them.

[benatkin]

Point taken. I retract my statements. I think it is possible to have a dress code for under cover policing. I guess the only thing left is that I think that a dress code is not the same as a uniform, and that an undercover operation could have a dress code similar to a nightclub, where there are rules but no specific products that have to be worn.

[throwawaymanbot]

The Irish term “hard man” is more of a meaning about a persons spirit/ attitude to certain things. It does mean someone you don’t want to mess with or in fact have any sort of dealings with. (unless you can equivalently “nullify” their attitude and there’s only one thing usually that can nullify a “hard man”… and this the cycle begins.

[lordnacho]

> other organization with a dress code that requires a gun

Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that undertone?

[ordu]

Policemen wear guns, and it doesn't sound like an organized crime.

The root of the word "siloviki" is "sila", which means "force". And it is about using force in order to perform their job. Like policemen do. Or security guards. Or soldiers.

And it is not used to refer to crime activities. They also use force, but they are not "siloviki".

[cjmcqueen]

Force or power was how I see the translation. These are people using their force or power to their own agenda. It's a useful name IMHO

[sgt101]

In some places, in theory, the police use consent of the overwhelming majority to do their job.

[tenuousemphasis]

That is merely a pleasant sounding fiction perpetuated by those with wealth and power.

[IncRnd]

> Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that undertone?

As does "Department of Homeland Security". That was the first federal agency named that way, and prior to that people would have thought that sort of naming to be associated with the Stassi or a totalitarian regime. I suppose it is commonplace now.

[murderfs]

"Federal Bureau of Investigation" or "Secret Service" aren't particularly friendly sounding names either...

[hunterb123]

Friendly sounding to whom?

[xxs]

>is it supposed to have that undertone?

nope. the 2nd word means "structures" and it implies part of the state.

[hunterb123]

> other organization with a dress code that requires a gun

No, that sounds like any armed forces, police force, the secret service, etc.

[skrtskrt]

or mercenaries/"private security"

[fragmede]

Unconscious bias at work. Russians aren't mostly mobsters wearing Adidas track suits, despite what you see on TV and in movies.