[TestSIM1]

Here in Russia it's a total clusterfuck at this point.

1) Roscomnadzor bans Twitter in Russia.

2) Russian embassy posts on Twitter claiming Mariupol hospital bombing was faked.

It's like:

Should we ban Twitter in Russia? Yes.

Should we keep posting Russian propaganda on Twitter? Also yes.

[lalaland1125]

> Should we keep posting Russian proganda on Twitter? Also yes.

Well, that propaganda is for foreign audiences.

This is 100% consistent. You can believe the game is rigged, but still be forced to play.

[kurthr]

Note, this is exactly as true of Chinese media/propaganda (CGTN etc). They are all over Tiktok, Twitter, Youtube, Facebook etc... but if you see someone posting from there, you can assume that it is likely state sponsored. It is illegal for a national to use a VPN to access those sites, and dangerous to do so if it upsets anyone in power.

[trasz]

Not true; everyone uses VPN. It’s as illegal as smoking weed in Berlin.

[chupasaurus]

Well Russia doesn't penalize for use of VPNs yet

[lazide]

Give it a few days

[chupasaurus]

It's been 5 years or so since the idea was mentioned in the parliament, but I've made an accent on the word "yet" for this reason.

[throwuxiytayq]

Ok, yes, correct. But either you're missing the parent poster's point or I'm missing yours.

[TestSIM1]

Both lalaland1125 and duxup are correct. It's for the Western audience.

But my point was along the lines: Kremlin's bans Twitter since they can't control it in Russia (e.g. hard to remove content or prosecute the users.)

And they still keep using it despite all their recent "fuck you West" rhetoric.

[tablespoon]

> It's like:

> Should we ban Twitter in Russia? Yes.

> Should we keep posting Russian propaganda on Twitter? Also yes.

That's entirely consistent. It just means (from their perspective) Twitter is for externally-facing propaganda.

IIRC, nationalist Chinese diplomats, the Global Times editor, etc. are all active on Twitter for the same reason.

[pessimizer]

This is normal. The US maintains multiple radio stations (for going on 75 years) that do not broadcast in the US. They often broadcast stuff that Americans would be shocked to hear, like: https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/u-s-government-broadcaster-a...

I think the reason historically here is that there is a prohibition on the CIA disseminating propaganda in the US, IIRC.

[danielktdoranie]

Pretty sure Russia took responsibility for the hospital but my understanding is Russia claims their intelligence was 1.) it was no longer a functioning hospital and 2.) used as a base of operations for the fascist Azov Battalion... not that it didn't happen.

[schleck8]

They claimed they did not destroy the hospital at first and then shifted to calling it an Azov base afaik.

Just like Lavrov yesterday claimed Russia hasn't actually invaded Ukraine.

[xdennis]

He said that Russia doesn't plan on invading any countries and that Russia hasn't even invaded Ukraine... which is very concerning for us in Romania.

[CoastalCoder]

I'm very sorry for the situation you're in. Could you elaborate on your fears for Romania?

Putin's attempt to annex Ukraine has been very damaging to Russia's economy and (I assume) its conventional military strength. Putin's actions also placed the rest of Europe on high alert.

So even if Putin manages to secure control of eastern Ukraine, I assume it would take many years before Russia is strong enough to attempt another expansion. And I expect nearby countries would use that time very productively.

[lazide]

Typically if the economy is collapsing during a military action like this, the gov’t has only two options:

1) stop (which in this situation would mean admitting that it was a bad idea/defeat, and almost certainly lead to Putin’s death and the collapse of the gov’t)

Or

2) double down and switch to a military economy, using outside sanctions as proof that they were right and everyone else WAS out to get the country.

Guess which one they seem to be doing?

And if they successfully switch to us vs them’ing the entire world, they can’t let peace happen or folks will start thinking. They need a constant enemy.

[8note]

Sounds similar to claims about the Ukranian medical research labs.

First claims that there are no weapons labs, then claims that the things attacked aren't weapons labs.

It's possible for details to be lost in translation, and for people to make mistakes

[schleck8]

Wow, Russia has messed up really badly then. I guess their navigation wasn't working since they ended up on all accessible sites of Ukraine, including next to Kyiv. While announcing an operation in Donbass

[throwaway_4ever]

Then that would be the 100th thing they’re calling “Azov Battalion.”

I’m half convinced they see the entire country as “Azov Battalion” and whatever they shell will be given the same excuse.

[scruple]

They can claim whatever they want. They're known liars. What are they claiming as retroactive justification for shooting fleeing civilians?

[watwut]

Which is ... not taking responsibility. And simultaneously it is ... claiming that bombing of maternity ward did not happened.

[at-fates-hands]

Interesting observation. . .

When Crimea was annexed, there were many articles on Azov Battalion and the implications that it was the best thing (capable fighters who will defend the country) and the worst thing (they're Fascists) and how that would play out if Russia invaded.

Since the invasion, I haven't seen any articles on the topic and the US media have gone suddenly silent on their involvement. I find it kind of odd considering there is such a preoccupation with Nazi's in this country, they would just ignore this part of the narrative.

[Bouncingsoul1]

"Since the invasion, I haven't seen any articles on the topic and the US media have gone suddenly silent on their involvement." that's just not true pick your favourite search engine and you see articles on this topic from every major outlet.I checked for this Nyt, WP (US) , der spiegel(ger), guardian(uk). You see articles coming up the last 2 weeks, another spike was 2017 and before 2014. I guess if ran an analysis for I'd see spikes mentioning Azov, whenever the Ukranian topic was in the media

[shihab]

You're right, and yet I disagree with your main point. For every article about Azov or other far-right nationalists, there are like 100 saying Russia is spreading misinformation about Nazism in Ukraine (which can of course be true too). The ratio is not appropriate in my very subjective opinion.

Another point about you mentioning The Guardian- I've always found before, specially so during this conflict, British media presents comparatively balanced narrative than American ones. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" is being staged right in front of our eyes.

[Bouncingsoul1]

'The ratio is not appropriate in my very subjective opinion." you are making up a ratio without data to back it up and then say it is not appropriate?

[epakai]

What ratio is appropriate once Russia has used this excuse to invade a sovereign nation? The time for having concern about Azov battalion seems well past. There was never such ultimatum as "get rid of Nazis or we will do it for you". It was never a real concern, but a pretext, their own manufactured consent.

[s1artibartfast]

There was some news covered about a proposed bill stop US military training for the Azov, but pretty quiet after it didn't pass

[vogre]

Latvia (also NATO country, and in the Meta list) still has this https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-latvia-hundreds-march-in-ho...

[pyronik19]

It's curious as to why we don't treat western govt / media sources as "propaganda" but everything Russian is. I fully agree with the label, but its not being applied to the west. How long were western media just regurgitating that "biolabs" was "Russian disinformation" and writing "fact checks" which just parrot the official government narrative until they realized the Russians were going to capture them then they just admit it in an open hearing? I don't believe a word of what either side says. The moral superiority gap has shrunk to next to nothing.

[AYBABTME]

Which open hearing?

[pyronik19]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvRpntmUIxs

[lalaland1125]

The implication that Ukrainian biolabs were developing bioweapons is Russian disinformation.

There are biolabs in almost every country. Almost every university will have one for example.

https://www.state.gov/the-kremlins-allegations-of-chemical-a... is the full US government statement. Which part do you think is inaccurate?

[pyronik19]

Here you are perpetuating more western propaganda and potential misinformation. First of all the difference between a "biolab" and a "bioweapons lab" is a semantic difference without actual substance. If covid was released out of the wuhan lab, the now predominate theory, this wasn't a "bioweapons lab" but just a "biolab". What is the practical difference? Fact is, anyone performing research that could be used as a bioweapon doesn't actually call it a bioweapon. They just in practice do all the same things a bioweapons lab would and pretend its just "for defense". You say potato, I say potato.

[lalaland1125]

Do you have any evidence that the biolabs in Ukraine were performing research that was oriented towards being usable as a weapon?

Like what exactly is the claim here about that those labs were doing?

Or do you just think any biolab should automatically be assumed to be working on bioweapons? (And that we should ban all biolabs worldwide I guess?)

[hiram112]

The line coming out of the US gov't no longer even makes sense, IMO.

They've claimed, like you, that the labs were just general biolabs you'd find at any university, and anything related to WMD is just Russian "disinformation."

But they've also claimed that these labs were old Soviet-era weapons research labs the DOD was helping to close down.

So which is it?

If they're closing down old weapons labs, why'd it take 17 years? If they're not weapons labs, why are they so afraid (as Nuland from State Dep't claimed) of the Russians seizing or destroying them?

If they're just research labs for the good of humanity, the gov't needs to explain to us taxpayers why they continue building up infrastructure and subsidizing research and jobs in foreign countries with money borrowed from China and / or printed up, which is now exacerbating inflation. How many underemployed PHDs in the US could be doing some research here at home with the hundreds of millions of dollars we've just handed out to Ukraine?

[landemva]

' explain to us taxpayers why they continue building up infrastructure and subsidizing research and jobs in foreign countries with money borrowed from China and / or printed up '

This is a good example of why government spending should be constrained. Fiat currency allows crazy spending and financing endless war. In the medium and long term this harms everyone. In the short term, bio-researchers get grants and toys to play with, and war profiteers get to make more munitions.

It takes 17 years to shut down Frankenstein labs because it costs government nothing to print funds.

[Paradigma11]

"So which is it?" Most likely a complicated mix of many things.

Why would the ukrainians destroy the soviet labs just to build new ones?

It does seem prudent to destroy dangerous substances that might get involved in combat situations. There is also the possibility of false flag operations.

[cjbgkagh]

I think there was a release of docs about using humanized migratory birds to carry disease to specific places. Possibly as a blurred line between studying such mechanisms for defense as opposed to offense. I can’t speak to accuracy of such claims but it does appear that info is being released.

[lalaland1125]

The repetition of unsourced claims without any links really isn't the most useful for online discussion. Especially for claims as wild as this.

[8note]

That is to say, all of silicon valley and the FANNGs are digital weapons factories, and YC itself is a weapons company.

Similarly, theres no practical difference between a military and civilian coffee shop, therefore all coffee shops are proper military targets

[mensetmanusman]

What would happen if Twitter banned Russia in response to being banned…

Good or bad decision?

[duxup]

Well they want to reach the outside world so yeah they use Twitter and etc.

[listless]

Is banning effective? Can’t you just hop on a VPN and be done with it? Do they block that too?

[kurthr]

Yes, although it will "go down on your permanent record". As long as you don't post anything identifiable online or upset anyone, you probably won't be arrested.

[TestSIM1]

Some VPN sites and apps (Google Play and App Store) are banned.

Still for now getting a VPN isn't that hard.

[__s]

It's effective enough

[CyanBird]

Voice of America, RadioFarda, RadioSvoboda and RadioFreeAsia all are by law prohibited to publish their "news" to US public because these disinfo operations are aimed to foreign audiences

[croes]

1) ban for russian citizens 2) no ban for russian authorities.

Simple as that.

1 is for in, 2 is for out