[s1artibartfast]

>Information from either side is to be taken with a grain of salt, although Ukraine is winning the social media ops-game hands down.

At lest in the west where our information is censored to provide a Pro-Ukrainian perspective.

I can only guess at how the social media ops-game is playing out in Russia and China within their own propaganda bubble.

[oezi]

Can you clarify how are our information censored in the west? Like specifically what kind of information is actively suppressed by a government actor?

[s1artibartfast]

I don't have any evidence of government action so I assume it is voluntary. A simple example is I tried to Google search Ukrainian troop locations last weekend and got zero hits.

A number of Wikipedia articles for historic events are also actively being revised

[thesmok]

> A simple example is I tried to Google search Ukrainian troop locations last weekend and got zero hits.

Starting Feb 24th, every Ukrainian knows to never photograph our troops, never post about location of our troops, and to photograph and post enemy troops as much as possible. That's why you can easily find photos of vehicles marked Z, but it's very hard to find photos of vehicles wearing pixel camo.

[s1artibartfast]

That makes sense.

That doest explain why any loosely related information was scraped from the internet from the dawn of time

[xdennis]

> A simple example is I tried to Google search Ukrainian troop locations last weekend and got zero hits.

Looks like the rumors are true: you Russians are using Google to search for targets. It's hilarious that you're complaining that this is censorship when saying "war" gets you 15 years in gaol in Russia.

[s1artibartfast]

I didn't say it was the end of the world.

Just an example of information being delisted from search engines in the west. i.e. censorship.

I don't like my government participating in a war while being censored form learning about what is going in that war from public sources. These could include statements from my own government, past or present.

[thiagoharry]

Well, if the same oligarchies that influences the government by lobby also are the owners of big media companies, you do not need the direct involvement of government to censor the information and you can keep the image of a free press.

[swagasaurus-rex]

Hint: they blame the USA and NATO for Putin invading

[s1artibartfast]

I assume you were talking about me. I think blame is a stupid and fruitless framing for discussion. I do think the Eastward advance of NATO was a strategic and moral mistake.

[frankharv]

Moral mistake to stand up to a bully?

That is the only reason NATO still exists.

We literally paid hundreds millions of dollars to prop up Russia and their nuke labs during Yeltsin.

Look what it got us. We should have snuffed them out like cockroaches. Instead we let them live. To our detriment.

We needed to keep the boogeyman alive.

[s1artibartfast]

You have to reconsider who is the bully given the number of countries invaded, governments toppled, and civilians killed by the US in the last 30 years.

The US takes the cake in all categories, but of course we aren't a bully, all the people we kill were the bullies. We are the strongest so we define who is a bully or not.

>We should have snuffed them out like cockroaches. Instead we let them live. To our detriment.

yeah, you really sound like the good guy here

[Seb-C]

The difference is that the US does not conquer, colonize, or annex the territories where they fight. It's even quite the opposite, since they usually try to give them freedom, independence and long term stability (with variable success and moral standing, but still)...

[s1artibartfast]

If that is how you feel about the US motivations and results, then I don't think we will be able to see eye-to-eye on these more specific issue.

I have a much more cynical view of US military interventions, in which they are largely self serving. The ideas of freedom, independence, and stability are platitudes to sell the war, are rarely align with the outcomes for the people in those countries.

The US did a good job of building liberal democracies after WWII, and perhaps up to the Vietnam war. If you look at countries in the last 50 years, the outcomes for the countries the US went into is quite poor.

[chii]

The whataboutism is heavy. The USA aint no saints, but that doesn't absolve putin's invasion. "They did it first, so we should be allowed" isn't a defensible justification for war.

[s1artibartfast]

I'm not absolving anyone. It is a fucked situation.

The hypocrisy of people saying they "should have snuffed them out like cockroaches" after 50 years of US atrocities is just astounding.

Russia is a bully, but the US is 10x worse. Ukraine is the looser here.

The US intentionally played them like a pawn and use their lives to get more leverage against Russia.

[cbdumas]

How do you think you would feel about that if you lived in Lithuania?

[pmoriarty]

What price is preventing WW3 worth?

I would say any price, as after WW3 civilization as we know it, if not all of humanity will perish.

It is WW3 that we are edging towards in this war over NATO membership.

[dTal]

If the world demonstrates that possession of nuclear weapons is sufficient to ensure safety even while committing indefensible wars of conquest and aggression, then WW3 becomes more likely, not less. Our response to unacceptable behavior by nation-states should be swift and painful.

[CRConrad]

> It is WW3 that we are edging towards in this war over NATO membership.

It's not a "war over NATO membership"; that's just the Putler-propaganda framing of it.

[maury91]

I live in Lithuania and I'm glad we are part of Nato or now we will be the ones invaded by Russia

[s1artibartfast]

If I lived in Lithuania I would probably feel very scared of Russia, and not care much about what is good for NATO, the US, and the world. If I thought I would be accepted without repercussions, I would probably want that.

[testrun]

Lithuanians disagrees. This is why they applied for EU and NATO membership as quickly as they can. The Baltic states also was the first to leave the USSR. They always wanted to be free.

[s1artibartfast]

Reread my response.

I said if I was Lithuanian I would probably apply. Sounds like they think the way I said they do.