[s1artibartfast]

If I lived in Lithuania I would probably feel very scared of Russia, and not care much about what is good for NATO, the US, and the world. If I thought I would be accepted without repercussions, I would probably want that.

[testrun]

Lithuanians disagrees. This is why they applied for EU and NATO membership as quickly as they can. The Baltic states also was the first to leave the USSR. They always wanted to be free.

[s1artibartfast]

Reread my response.

I said if I was Lithuanian I would probably apply. Sounds like they think the way I said they do.

[cbdumas]

Apply to what? Lithuania has been a NATO member since 2004. This is literally the "eastward advance of NATO" which you referred to as a "moral mistake". You contradict yourself.

[s1artibartfast]

You misunderstand.

The question of what is a strategic and moral mistake for this US is entirely separate from what makes Lithuania happy.

If someone asks me how I would feel if I were Russian, Lithuanian, or Chinese I provide an answer from that perspective. That doesn't mean I agree with it or it is moral.

To be absolutely clear, I can understand why Lithuania would want to be part of NATO, but I do not think it was wise or moral for the US to grant such a request.

This is not a radical position, and was held by many NATO members at the time. They required significant persuasion from the US to allow Lithuania entry to NATO.

Similarly, France, Germany, and many NATO countries did not want to open the door to Georgia and Ukraine in 2008. They felt that it would lead to war in Europe. Again they were overruled by the US and we got a war in Georgia in 2008, the annexation of Crimea in 2014, and the largest war in Europe since WW2 today.

[CRConrad]

> I can understand why Lithuania would want to be part of NATO, but I do not think it was wise or moral for the US to grant such a request.

> This is not a radical position

Maybe not; only a stupid and morally abhorrent one.

> and was held by many NATO members at the time. They required significant persuasion from the US to allow Lithuania entry to NATO.

Yeah, NATO member states are also capable of holding stupid and morally abhorrent positions.

> Similarly, France, Germany, and many NATO countries did not want to open the door to Georgia and Ukraine in 2008. They felt that it would lead to war in Europe.

We'll never know, though, will we? Since Georgia and Ukraine weren't admitted into NATO in (or soon after) 2008, I mean.

> Again they were overruled by the US and we got a war in Georgia in 2008, the annexation of Crimea in 2014, and the largest war in Europe since WW2 today.

Yup. Judging from the facts, all because Georgia and Ukraine weren't admitted into NATO in (or soon after) 2008. Well, because of that, and mainly because the Russian people keep clinging on to a fucking dictator who does shit like that, of course. Time for a fucking revolution, perhaps? I've heard you've tried one of those before. Pro tip: Try not to replace one fucking dictator with another this time.