[saturdaysaint]

This line of argument doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny. First of all, it's quite pedantic and naive to assume that governments and medical bodies in the richest and most advanced countries haven't worked through similar issues of causality with innumerable other diseases. More to the point, the peaks in COVID deaths magically align with proportionately large spikes in all cause mortality not seen in prior years that have yet to be explained by anything else.

[mdoms]

Here in New Zealand a gang member was shot to death and was recorded as a covid death because he tested positive posthumously. This is apparently in line with international practices. If you don't see the absurdity in that then I don't know what to say.

[dzhiurgis]

I assume it’s this story https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/11/new-lynn-shooting-victim-...

It’s not really true if you read further into it. Think about it - if you get nasty infection while under surgery - was cause of death surgery or infection.

[mdoms]

I have looked into it, and what I said is absolutely true. From your linked article,

> "The clinical criteria will continue to be guided by WHO definition which is basically to report any death where the person had an acute Covid-19 infection regardless of what the cause of death might be," Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield told RNZ.

The death was reported as a "death with covid" in accordance with WHO guidelines. Again, if you don't see the absurdity then you can't be helped.

> Think about it - if you get nasty infection while under surgery - was cause of death surgery or infection.

How on earth is this relevant? The victim was not showing symptoms and did not undergo surgery.

[dzhiurgis]

As I said - read further - they confirmed later by a coroner.

[lupire]

You two are disagreeing because the article is terribly ambiguous on the key question about "acute COVID" and "cause of death".

[mdoms]

You're missing the point. The case was still counted in covid stats, because that is the accepted method from the WHO.

[R0b0t1]

It's important to record died with covid. We might later find out there's a mental component. Maybe he experienced covid madness and undertook riskier behavior.

There is still the determination that he was shot, so it's not like we are going to forever think these deaths were just attributed to covid.

[LAC-Tech]

Covid helping to do the job our police and military can't.

[WithinReason]

> More to the point, the peaks in COVID deaths magically align with proportionately large spikes in all cause mortality not seen in prior years that have yet to be explained by anything else.

In the UK they are in fact inversely correlated for Omicron. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30558089

[nojito]

Very few states record COVID deaths properly.

How do you remove people who die in the hospital for other reasons but have a mandatory COVID swab done and are positive?

[NoSorryCannot]

The person you responded to mentioned all-cause mortality. Remove the base rate, then you're left with excess deaths. How do you explain excess deaths if they are not covid?

And that's not to say an explanation other than covid is impossible, but it would need to be compelling.

[briandear]

> How do you explain excess deaths if they are not covid?

Delayed medical care because of Covid fear. I missed my annual physical two years ago and ended up with a heart attack I barely survived last October. People were delaying routine screenings such as mammograms, physicals, and other preventative care.

There are also increases in suicide, deaths of despair, especially in younger people. Addiction especially.

Nobody wants to talk about vaccine injuries and related deaths. But that is non-zero.

[mehlmao]

Suicide rate was lower in 2020 and 2021 than it was prior to the pandemic.

[myvoiceismypass]

Out of curiosity, in what way did missing a physical cause or lead to your heart attack?

[pmarreck]

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-...

If you just look at the all-cause mortality increase, it neatly works around this problem, and looking at it that way gives a staggeringly higher number than the official tolls