[tgsovlerkhgsel]

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice.

Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is frequent, and needs to disrupt the user as little as possible. Android used to not allow alternative app stores to update apps without user interaction, but now supports this through UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION, which doesn't seem to be supported by F-droid. So it's manual clicking for each update.

F-droid also somehow gets the regular update flow wrong and often (always?) shows an error when you try to install the update from the notification. That has remained unfixed for years. So you have to manually open it, initiate the update, then click through the dialogs.

Additionally, the official repos update so slowly that they're useless for fast-moving stuff like NewPipe.

Together with Android bugs like https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/204233247 (resetting all "open with" URIs on update), this makes using packages installed through F-Droid a nightmare.

[staindk]

Not really a counter point because you mention a lot of other issues with f-droid that sound valid (I haven't used it myself) - but as a tangent regarding auto updates, I disable them basically everywhere because I seem to have buggy experiences too often if I allow stuff to update all the time.

I then go through the list of updates in the Play Store once a week or so and install those that I think might improve app functioning/stability. I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long (need to work on this).

Feel like everyone is skimping on QA these days or something else fishy is going on. In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues. I didn't get them (tbf I understand that most people didn't), partially thanks to having auto updates disabled.

[freedomben]

Yep, me too. I used to evangelize frequent updates because of the security aspect. However over time I kept getting burned by disruptive or buggy updates that broke things that I depend on.

The last straw for me was a few years ago when my podcast suddenly stopped playing. When I unlocked the phone to investigate why the episode had stopped the UI had completely changed, in a way that I was completely lossed and had to start over learning it from scratch. I was right at the beginning of a long road trip and had pre-downloaded many hours were of stuff to listen to because I didn't have much data in my plan. All of the episodes I had downloaded were gone. Additionally because I was driving, learning a completely new interface was horribly dangerous.

That was the day I disabled auto updates, and now I manually approve each one. Certain apps where I don't want to risk UI changes or new bugs, don't get updated right away. When they do, I always backup the old APK first so I can easily restore it if needed.

[mehdix]

Exactly the same here. Nowadays I go through the changelog and often I realize there is no changelog for the update, or it is totally irrelevant for me (e.g. bug fixes for other android versions or problems which I don't have, marketing changes, cosmetic changes, features I don't need, etc.)

[tentacleuno]

F-Droid lets you downgrade apps. The only problem is that due to Android's security protections, you have to uninstall the app to install an older version (downgrade protection).

[cmeacham98]

This still sucks for your usecase on F-Droid. If you look through the available updates and pick 10 to install, you have to click through 10 popups to allow the installation, one for each update, waiting in between each for the previous update to finish before being able to approve the next.

[toastal]

How many apps do you need installed (and why)? I feel like I'm a pretty heavy user, but if I forget to update for a week at most I have 6 apps to manually click through. It seems likes an insignificant gripe considering the other alternatives (Play Store, Amazon, Huawei, etc)

[freddie_mercury]

These are the apps on my phone that have updated in the past 7 days:

Subway/public transit app (see how much money I have left on the cards)

Grab (an Uber competitor where I live)

Facebook

YouTube

Google

Google Maps

A bank app

Signal

Google Calendar

GMail

Android Auto

Agoda, a hotel booking app

Dropbox

Netflix

Instagram

AirBnB

A second bank app

A boardgame helper app

Uber

TripIt

Microsoft ToDo

Shopping app for the baby store we order diapers and formula from every few days

Pocket

Spotify

Proton calendar

Facebook Messenger

Google Docs

Google Photos

Google Voice

Google Sheets

You Need A Budget

Tiktok

Shopee, an online shopping app I use nearly every day

My country's covid vaccine tracking app

Google Translate

[toastal]

From F-Droid? Are you not choosing Aurora store? (Yes, I know what those apps are, I'm in the same region and time zone as you)

[freddie_mercury]

Not from F-Droid. I was just replying to the parent's claim that normal people don't need a lot of apps.

If I don't have a laptop or desktop, why wouldn't I have a lot of apps on my phone?

[thaumasiotes]

> In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues.

I'm still mad about the Windows update that permanently stopped Windows from working with my Bose headphones. The headphones continued to work perfectly with anything that wasn't running Windows.

[infinityio]

Out of interest, have you tested them on win11? One of the later win10 updates broke my Bluetooth headphones (actually, Bluetooth in general became pretty buggy), but they 'magically' unbroke after the upgrade

[hansel_der]

ime bluetooth has been buggy ever since. not always, but it failed me countless times in the worst situations. one reason why a phone has to have a 3,5mm jack.

[thaumasiotes]

No, I haven't.

[mackrevinack]

i got stung a few times and have turned off updates since. it wouldn't be such an issue if the play store would allow you to roll back to a previous version

[iggldiggl]

Even if Android would let you easily downgrade apps, the problem remains that each individual app would also have to support that scenario, too (by never doing any data migration that would leave the user data no longer readable by the old app version).

[tgsovlerkhgsel]

Personally, I've found that disabling auto-updates just means either unnecessarily sticking with outdated/buggy versions (or versions that drift out of sync with backend services and acquire new bugs that way), or I spend way too much time manually maintaining my phone instead of actually using it.

I don't have time to read release notes/research each new version, so I'd likely just spend 10 minutes hitting "update" on everything, then getting bitten by the same issues.

(This is specifically in regards to Android apps, not other platforms).

[autoexec]

> Personally, I've found that disabling auto-updates just means either unnecessarily sticking with outdated/buggy versions (or versions that drift out of sync with backend services and acquire new bugs that way),

I guess I don't care if my apps are "outdated" as long as they still do what I want. If there's something buggy about an app that annoys me enough I'll often just uninstall the buggy app and find an alternative.

I find that once I install an Fdroid app and I like it, it'll pretty much just keep working just the way I want it to. The only app I use that breaks if I don't update it is NewPipe and that's google's fault. It doesn't happen often enough, or take long enough to update to offset the benefits of using it.

Even most my regular google play store apps don't actually "need" to be updated, and many haven't been since the day they were installed with no bugs or issues.

[axiolite]

> regarding auto updates, I disable them basically everywhere because I seem to have buggy experiences too often

With Play Store I agree. With F-Droid, I do not. You can easily install older revisions if you find a problem, which I almost never do with F-droid.

[andai]

>I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long

I thought you needed some kind of registry hacks or something to disable automatic updates since W10, can you elaborate on how you got it to stop pestering you?

[lsferreira42]

I followed this website and it works:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-a...

[andai]

Brilliant, thank you!

[istillwritecode]

I also disable auto updates once every six months is enough for me. I really really don't care about the security of these apps.

[AshamedCaptain]

> UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION

I actually tried to play with this not long ago, and it is so broken that it makes me think they just wanted to "check the box" in case some judge thought this was abusive behavior. It probably still is.

Not only this API is available only on Android 12, it also _only_ works for programs that have Android 12 as target level API (i.e. when you try to upgrade older programs the prompt will still show up), and only works for programs that your package manager installed in the first place. GPlay does not have this limitation and will happily update packages you installed, after which your package manager is no longer allowed to upgrade them. It's all a big mess.

[ancientsofmumu]

> ...but it's just not usable in practice.

> ...this makes using packages installed through F-Droid a nightmare.

I run 2x Androids with near 80%-90% of the packages installed from F-Droid repos (to include Bromite and Bitwarden custom repos); it has quirks and is not perfect - but far from "not usable" and "nightmare" as your hyperbole would suggest.

[prvc]

This is exaggerated language, but the described traits are certainly inconvenient, unpleasant, and unnecessarily time consuming for the user.

[newaccount74]

Same here. Curation could still be better on F-Droid, but I'm very happy with it overall.

Thank you whoever is behind it, you're doing a great job.

[6yyyyyy]

>So it's manual clicking for each update.

You need to install the F-Droid Privileged Extension, or use a ROM that has it pre-installed. That way it can update apps without user interaction.

[blacksmith_tb]

Ah, but it looks like that means you need to be rooted?

[undersuit]

Yes the Android OS requires you to be rooted to add the feature if your image wasn't built with the privileged extension.

[nobodywasishere]

You don't need to be rooted if you're using a custom rom like LineageOS, where you could potentially install the extension with temporary root like is done for UnifiedNLP here: blog.eowyn.net/unifiednlp/

[bentcorner]

Link: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid.privileged...

[amatecha]

Hmm, sounds great to me. I loathe automatic updates and consider them a great way to ruin the software I'm used to. I can't possibly count the number of times an update to a piece of software (especially on closed platforms like iOS) broke something I rely on and I had to either wait until the developer fixed the issue, or just accept that the software is never again going to work the way it used to.

Further, I disable notifications for nearly everything, so that point doesn't matter to me either.

I'm definitely relieved that the most-upvoted comment critiquing F-Droid doesn't raise anything of concern for me! I was worried I was about to read something that might push me away from making a de-Googled Android device my next smartphone... haha

[discardedrefuse]

Just FYI, NewPipe has their own F-Droid repo with faster updates. https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/

So does Bromite browser. https://www.bromite.org/fdroid

[trs-80]

That, in itself, is another nice feature of F-Droid. It allows you to add additional repositories of your own choosing.

It's so refreshing, especially compared to $megacorp <strike>control freak</strike>, er, security measures, yeah that's it!

[pSYoniK]

I have been using F-Droid for about 2 years now as the main source for the few apps that I use and updates are coming through without interaction. Bitwarden/Aegis/Tutanota/Syncthing/K-9 all receive regular updates as far as I've experienced during this time.

I also haven't had issues with update flow. When was the last time you used F-Droid for a prolonged period of time?

[Leherenn]

I have the same issue fwiw. A notification to update NewPipe that always fail to install the update, but it works if you do it manually in the app. Just happened a couple of hours ago.

[pmontra]

I'm OK with manual updates, I disabled autoupdates on Google Play too because I can't trust the apps to actually update them and not remove some functionality or worse.

You are right that the download / install process is very quirky. It often fails to provide the right feedback about what's going on and errors are common. Is it downloading, is it installing, did it get my touch? However I really want to install from there and not from Google.

[simcop2387]

I believe this is a result of fdroid wanting to support older android versions for longer than google does. They could probably make two versions to allow this though but that would require more maintenance

[kbelder]

In order to reduce disruption from updates, I've found it necessary to turn them off. I'll go into the play store and update the ones I want to update, when I want to.

So for at least some users, this isn't a problem at all. It's a better default.

[btdmaster]

Issue tracking here: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/2316

[TwoNineFive]

Slightly hyperbolic in saying it's "usable in practice", but only slightly, and everything you said is true per my own experience. That just makes these issues super annoying. Normal people won't put up with it, and they shouldn't have to. Hacker types might be motivated to continue using F-Droid, but power users and others probably won't.

[hadrien01]

I just use SkyDroid. It's way faster, less buggy, and compatible with Shinzuku which allows rootless auto-updates by making use of newer developer options (Android 11+)

[mod50ack]

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