[dvt]

> the downside is extremely large (nothing polls worse than Americans getting shipped home in boxes, and nothing would make Russia happier than to have actual proof of direct interference.)

I think this goes against everything we know about modern warfare. I'd bet money (1) Zelenskyy is being actively supported/coached by the CIA or MI6 (his PR/propaganda game has been absolutely on point), (2) there are covert-ops teams in Ukraine that are assisting the rag-tag paramilitary and civilian groups with advanced urban warfare tactics (e.g. demolishing bridges, improvised armaments, etc.), and (3) the Kremlin is correct that NATO/US UAVs are relaying detailed Russian troop/ship movements back to Ukranian leadership.

[woodruffw]

You've mashed a whole bunch of things together here.

Is Zelenskyy receiving foreign intelligence from NATO? That wouldn't surprise me.

Is NATO (or separately the US) flying drones over Ukraine for intelligence gathering? That's a step further, but it doesn't seem impossible.

Are there US/British/etc. nationals in Ukraine, doing their own protective sabotage/engaging directly with the enemy? I find this very difficult to believe, for the reasons stated in the previous comment.

"Modern warfare" means a whole bunch of things, including that Ukrainian soldiers don't need months of training to operate the push-button munitions that NATO has dumped on them. NATO has dozens of options to exhaust before doing something as risky as directly inserting foreign soldiers into a war they're not involved in on paper.

[dvt]

> Are there US/British/etc. nationals in Ukraine, doing their own protective sabotage/engaging directly with the enemy? I find this very difficult to believe, for the reasons stated in the previous comment.

Why do you think black ops in Ukraine is beyond the pale (technically even intelligence support kind of drags NATO into this)? I agree with you that they are probably instructed to not directly engage with the Russians, but sabotage and training doesn't really seem that far fetched to me, although..

> including that Ukrainian soldiers don't need months of training to operate the push-button munitions that NATO has dumped on them

..this is actually a great point. With Javelins and NLAWs that just about anyone in this thread could use against tanks and helis effectively, maybe they don't need any on-ground assistance.

[woodruffw]

Yeah, it's basically just that: Ukraine's armed forces are better equipped to identify and protect/defensively sabotage their own country's infrastructure than NATO would be, and everything NATO has given them shouldn't require training that they can't do themselves (if any is needed at all).

But it's all just speculation on my part! That's what HN does best, after all.

[ukraineally]

>I'd bet money (1) Zelenskyy is being actively supported/coached by the CIA or MI6 (his PR/propaganda game has been absolutely on point),

Oh man is it ever. Dont know who exactly, but ya no doubt getting coached.

>2) there are covert-ops teams in Ukraine that are assisting the rag-tag paramilitary and civilian groups with advanced urban warfare tactics (e.g. demolishing bridges, improvised armaments, etc.), a

I suspect language barriers would prevent much work together here.

What I have been seeing, there are tons of videos of 'aftermaths' where russians took tons of losses but nothing else. I would expect the spec ops took out the russians and just moved on. They are largely speaking just looking at intel and intercepting ground troops.

>(3) the Kremlin is correct that NATO/US UAVs are relaying detailed Russian troop/ship movements back to Ukranian leadership.

You can confirm this yourself on various ADSB tracking maps. Dont forget geo spy sattelites. The russian troops are tracked in real time. They are sitting ducks who haven't even seen true resistance yet.