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by wolverine876 1574 days ago
I'm not the person you asked, but the very well-known understanding, going back probably to Napoleon or earlier (among foreign policy experts), is that Ukraine has geopolitics. Geography is far more important to national power than non-experts realize.

Without Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, Russia loses sea access to the Black Sea and thus the Mediterranean for their navy (and also for trade), which historically has been a primary determinant of Russian military influence in Europe. Otherwise, they only have northern ports which are frozen and easily choked off (and ports way over on the Pacific - imagine having to sail your navy around Eurasia in order to attack or defend).

More importantly, Ukraine's geography is easy to move large forces across, in that respect a major battlefield (with due respect to Ukrainians). Napoleon and the Nazis both crossed through that region on their way to Russia, and when Russia attacks West, they go through Ukraine. Russian wants to control it and to prevent others from controlling it.

By controlling Ukraine, Russia can put more pressure on, have more influence over, Ukraine's neighbors, including Poland, and further cut off Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia from their NATO allies.

Finally, Putin wants glory - don't underestimate the personal characteristics, such as ego, of unaccountable dictators - and to recreate the Soviet empire and the illusion of power. An independent, democratic Ukraine both undermines that appearance (and perception is everything for dictators) and embarasses Putin's claim to power as an authoritarian dictator.

3 comments

> Without Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, Russia loses sea access to the Black Sea and thus the Mediterranean for their navy (and also for trade),

That's untrue. Sevastopol is the main port and naval base in the Black Sea, but Russia has plenty of others, and some are even undergoing expansion - Novorosiisk ( the backup one). Sevastopol is in Crimea, but was shared under an agreement between the Russian and Ukrainian navies. So in reality, Russia gained nothing there besides an extra front for their current invasion of Ukraine.

They gained exactly what they wanted by taking crimea, the inability to deploy nato forces and equipment there and domestic contorl of their leased naval port in crimea. Basically nato stated that yep, ukraine (and georgia) should join them, later on when the ukraine coup happened and got a pro western government, russia was going: yep - possibility of nato on crimea and losing our haval base there is not going to happen, it's ours now.
But that didn't achieve anything. NATO can still deploy forces and equipment in Odessa or Mykolaiv, or in Romania or Bulgaria or Turkey, and can still easily block access to the Mediterranean.
It all depends on your point of view - the russian point of view is that nato controlled crimea is much more unwanted, and would and leave them much more cornered compared to nato controlled Odessa and Mykolaiv (and that point shouldn't be too hard to realize by looking at the map). And they wanted to keep their naval base there, which they now can.

Romania, Bulgaria doesn't border Russia , Turkey is not on the land border and they have decent relations with them. But sure, they're likely not happy with that either - they just can't and will not do anything about it. With Crimea/Ukraine - they could.

> That's untrue. Sevastopol is the main port and naval base in the Black Sea, but Russia has plenty of others, and some are even undergoing expansion - Novorosiisk ( the backup one).

I have never seen someone claim that Novorosiisk was a sufficient port. Maybe it's a capacity issue?

> Sevastopol is in Crimea, but was shared under an agreement between the Russian and Ukrainian navies.

It is in a foreign country, an unfriendly one. That greatly limits Russia's freedom of action.

Novorosiisk is undergoing expansion for precisely that reason. And Ukraine wasn't exactly unfriendly before the invasions, the Sevastopol lease was prolonged just before that.
It's not geography, it's history and ethnicity.

Putin view Ukraine as a natural part of the Russian Empire - they are his vassals.

They can't have a free and prosperous Ukraine that has 'gone to the side of the west'.

The Crimean peninsula is just a bonus.

> Napoleon and the Nazis both crossed through that region on their way to Russia

Hitler yes. Napoleon no. The French neither attacked nor retreated through what is now Ukraine.

That naive geography positioning reasoning is far from reality. From that point of view Belorussia is more valuable.

That "Mystery of Russian Soul" lies among the lines of "Kiev - mother of Russian cities" (term of 12th century Primary Chronicle) and too many other historical facts. Like Wild Steppe (south of Ukraine) were fought for and liberated from Crimean Khanate by Russian Army. Modern Kherson, Nikolayev, Sevastopol, and Ekaterinoslav(Dnipro/Dnepropetrovsk), were established by Gregory Potemkin (Empress Catherine times) and populated by peasants from Russian heartlands - Tambov, Ryazan, Pskov, etc.

All that is well known and well remembered facts by Russian public. So we should not expect that Russian people will be so against all that. If in doubt then see the above.

These nationalistic narratives are means, not causes. Russia wants to control Ukraine, so they teach these narratives to create public support. It's done in many places about many things. You can see people on HN repeating them about their countries.
Note that I hedged with, "through that region" (because I didn't have time to lookup the route). So which way did they go?
Current Belarus, North of Ukraine.