[nickff]

>"OBD2 as is required by the NHTSA, enables anyone with a scanner to view the diagnostic information, as well as the state of variables on a running engine. Say what you will about electric cars, but any vehicle with a standard diagnostic port is easily able to be worked on."

ODB2 reveals only some trouble codes; manufacturer-specific tools will tell you much more about what's going on.

>"With modern telematics, and datapoints that the manufacturers have been able to record, giving the ability to access thay information to third party repair and the customers, you can have more choice, and get this, ability to have repairs done."

I don't understand what you mean by this, and I've spent many years working in automotive diagnostics.

>"Dealers are not anywhere near always the best place to get a car repaired. In 10 years time, when the new cars age, they will need repair and maintenance that the dealer may overcharge for. If I had to service both of ny cars at the dealership, oil changes would cost me 3 times as much as I can do myself, brakes cost 2 times as much as a local shop can perform. Dealers don't provide a greater service to a vehicle than a standard mechanic shop can provide other than verified manufacturer parts at markup. "

I agree that dealers aren't always best, but they're generally quite good when the vehicle is less than about 10 years old. They have all the best tools, training, and experience with those vehicles. Independent mechanics (especially those who focus on a few brands) are generally better with older vehicles.

[CogitoCogito]

I guess the rational solution is for regulators to force the release of those manufacture specific tools.

[nickff]

Some of the manufacturers sell the codes (or the tools), but they're expensive, and not really worth it unless you specialize in those vehicles.

[CogitoCogito]

I guess I wasn’t clear in my last post. I meant that the rational thing would be to force the free release of the manufacture specific tools and information.

[nickff]

The manufacturers charge the dealers for those tools (a fact that some dealers resent); it would be quite something for them to make all that stuff free. I think the manufacturers would stop providing the tools and the codes to anyone, if there's no revenue to be had.

[CogitoCogito]

Of course there would be revenue to be had. They could be banned for not being reasonably cooperative with people trying to repair their vehicles. There would be a huge revenue incentive to cooperate.

[robbedpeter]

It shouldn't be a choice.

If the product runs a computer, the manufacturer provides software, manuals, and relevant tools required to maintain the product. You can't have right to repair and black box products, it's one or the other. If society chooses right to repair, then a lot of black box companies are gonna be sad.

[mistrial9]

> stop providing the tools and the codes to anyone, if there's no revenue to be had

this is a crucial statement in this exchange.. there is value, the car.. there are participants in the value chain.. mfg, dealer, repair shop, consumer.. where is the value exchanged? this is fair to discuss in the open..

When people get angry or resentful quickly is perhaps, when LIES are told for the purpose of getting a result. Also, modern manufacturing is a different thing, than 100 years ago when this started. Many more things are possible.

I will add, it is obvious here on YNews, that some manufacturers are absolutely callous to the rights of consumers. The USA pioneered consumer rights in many areas. I still hear Mr Ralph Nadar on the radio some days.

[_ea1k]

Oh, its not just the manufacturers. In many cases, the revenue is likely not significant to them in itself.

But it would give dealers less of an advantage relative to independent shops. The dealer lobbies are really powerful.

[syshum]

dealer lobbies are powerful at state level, less so at federal level

especially in states which tax the sale of new cars, as most of the time dealer sales represent a huge % of state revenue

[syshum]

I guess the parent clear in their last post. They meant that the rational thing would be to ***force*** the free release of the manufacture specific tools and information.

if they were FORCED by regulations, then they would not have the option to "stop" providing the tools and codes, they would be FORCED by REGULATION do to so if they wanted to continue to sell their product.

[raxxorrax]

Which artificially increases the price of repairs. The reason they need strong and clear regulation in the first place.

[porknubbins]

I do more or less all the work on my vehicles. Its much cheaper to buy parts online and watch youtube. But when my 5 year old Hyundai started randomly braking and accelerating and OBD only said Can bus issue I decided that I was willing to pay up for a dealer to diagnose and guarantee the fix. It was a fuel pump computer so it would’ve been cheap to fix but not worth it to waste my time troubleshooting.