[CogitoCogito]

I guess the rational solution is for regulators to force the release of those manufacture specific tools.

[nickff]

Some of the manufacturers sell the codes (or the tools), but they're expensive, and not really worth it unless you specialize in those vehicles.

[CogitoCogito]

I guess I wasn’t clear in my last post. I meant that the rational thing would be to force the free release of the manufacture specific tools and information.

[nickff]

The manufacturers charge the dealers for those tools (a fact that some dealers resent); it would be quite something for them to make all that stuff free. I think the manufacturers would stop providing the tools and the codes to anyone, if there's no revenue to be had.

[CogitoCogito]

Of course there would be revenue to be had. They could be banned for not being reasonably cooperative with people trying to repair their vehicles. There would be a huge revenue incentive to cooperate.

[robbedpeter]

It shouldn't be a choice.

If the product runs a computer, the manufacturer provides software, manuals, and relevant tools required to maintain the product. You can't have right to repair and black box products, it's one or the other. If society chooses right to repair, then a lot of black box companies are gonna be sad.

[mistrial9]

> stop providing the tools and the codes to anyone, if there's no revenue to be had

this is a crucial statement in this exchange.. there is value, the car.. there are participants in the value chain.. mfg, dealer, repair shop, consumer.. where is the value exchanged? this is fair to discuss in the open..

When people get angry or resentful quickly is perhaps, when LIES are told for the purpose of getting a result. Also, modern manufacturing is a different thing, than 100 years ago when this started. Many more things are possible.

I will add, it is obvious here on YNews, that some manufacturers are absolutely callous to the rights of consumers. The USA pioneered consumer rights in many areas. I still hear Mr Ralph Nadar on the radio some days.

[_ea1k]

Oh, its not just the manufacturers. In many cases, the revenue is likely not significant to them in itself.

But it would give dealers less of an advantage relative to independent shops. The dealer lobbies are really powerful.

[syshum]

dealer lobbies are powerful at state level, less so at federal level

especially in states which tax the sale of new cars, as most of the time dealer sales represent a huge % of state revenue

[syshum]

I guess the parent clear in their last post. They meant that the rational thing would be to ***force*** the free release of the manufacture specific tools and information.

if they were FORCED by regulations, then they would not have the option to "stop" providing the tools and codes, they would be FORCED by REGULATION do to so if they wanted to continue to sell their product.

[raxxorrax]

Which artificially increases the price of repairs. The reason they need strong and clear regulation in the first place.