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by ericmay 1580 days ago
I didn’t ask what the definition of essential was. I asked at what point something crosses over to being essential, and why being essential matters here specifically.
2 comments

This is Loki's Fallacy.

There is no exact point. It is a spectrum.

And phones are clearly on the side of essential.

We do not need an exact cutoff point to make judgements about an obvious case.

We do need some criteria though. You’re invoking the fallacy, not me. What is the criteria for being essential?
> What is the criteria for being essential?

The criteria would be "Whatever a jury or judge determines what the definition of essential is, in each specific lawsuit or case". Thats how the law works.

The law is not determined by some sort of exact programming code.

Instead, the law is determined by people. "I'll know it when I see it" is an actual argument, that the supreme court gave, for determining a similar question about what the definition of pornography is.

So, the answer for what "essential" is, is the same answer that the literal supreme court used, which is "I'll know it when I see it" or "whatever the judge/jury decides".

If that answer is good enough for the supreme court, then it is good enough for me.

> You’re invoking the fallacy, not me

Actually you were the one using the fallacy. Because you are attempting to demand an exact cutoff point, which is not necessary. The law does not need to define exact cutoff points ahead of time.

Instead, the law can consider those questions, as they come, in a court case/trial.

> Actually you were the one using the fallacy. Because you are attempting to demand an exact cutoff point, which is not necessary. The law does not need to define exact cutoff points ahead of time.

Again this is incorrect. I have not “demanded an exact cutoff point” at any time.

> Instead, the law can consider those questions, as they come, in a court case/trial.

So in other words you’re making a claim and then your defense of that claim is “the law will decide in a court case”. Ok… lol.

> . I have not “demanded an exact cutoff point” at any time

You said this "I asked at what point something crosses over "

This is literally you asking at what point something crosses over.

Not in the context you’re referring to. Asking at what point doesn’t have to mean some exact discrete point - you’re just selectively interpreting it that way to go on a tangent that I certainly don’t care about.
Would a life-saving device qualify as essential?
There isn't a clearly marked line to cross. It's more of a fuzzy wide wiggly line.

But in general something is essential when it is required to participate/function/exist/live/thrive meaningfully in society. These days lots of governments require that you have a smart phone to check in when you go somewhere or to show a digital vaccine certificate. Before that some big social media platforms (which is a big part of society) was either exclusive to mobile or designed to work best on mobile. Some services requires using a mobile app to interact with said service (account management). My current bank is mobile only as an example.