Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by HWR_14 1595 days ago
Yes. I am saying their analysis of risk is incorrect, and therefore if that's the only reason they aren't climbing then they should climb more often.
5 comments

I think you're reading it wrong.

After a long life of rock climbing, there's no significant risk of doing it one last time or 10 last times (ignoring the effect of old age itself and whatever).

But when you're in earlier stages of your life, you're asking a different question: You're asking, is this something I want to do hundreds or thousands of times in my life, knowing that each of those times has a small chance of ending my life? This becomes a completely different question.

If I'm 35, maybe I will climb 30 times per year on average for 30 years until I'm 65. That's 900 climbs in total. If my goal is to not die or experience serious injury from rock climbing even once in my life, I have to consider the chance that any one of those 900 climbs will result in serious injury or death. I don't know the numbers for the risks involved, but it seems reasonable to be cautious.

Maybe I don't want to give up on rock climbing altogether, but maybe I can scale it back. If I limit myself to 1 climb per year, that's 30 climbs in total. Much lower risk than with 900 climbs.

This is not a logical fallacy.

That would be a reason to have not climbed more than a specific rate ever. It wouldn't be a reason to scale down the rate of climbing as you age.
You're making it sound like it's a decision they made when they got into rock climbing initially, that they would climb frequently while young and then scale back as they get older.

Now, making that decision at the outset does make sense, because it will drastically reduce the number of climbs you make in your life compared to climbing frequently throughout your life, and rock climbing while young is less risky than rock climbing while old.

But importantly, I don't think that's what GP did. It sounds to me like GP spent their youth climbing a lot without considering their mortality, but then decided to scale back because they realized climbing that often for the rest of their life would be dangerous. Maybe they spent the time from 20 to 35 climbing 30 times per year, in keeping with my earlier example. That means they've already climbed 450 times. Risky, but they made it through alive. At 35, they start to consider their own mortality, and they have the choice between climbing 900 more times by keeping to their current rate, and climbing 30 more times by reducing their rate (or something in between). Deciding to scale back makes sense.

There is no logical fallacy.

The assumption is that it's desirable to have a descending climbing frequency instead of uniform.

This makes a lot of sense, as when you're younger frequent climbing would help you to develop proficiency quickly and your body allows you to joy it fully. Plus the social benefits are probably higher when younger.

Once you're older, it's potentially less enjoyable (as your body ages) and you don't need to worry as much about rapidly gaining proficiency.

I think what you're missing is that they are not avoiding "going rock climbing one more time"; they are avoiding "being a person who habitually rock climbs", because while each excursion is low-risk the aggregate effect will be high risk. It's like smoking -- one cigarette won't appreciably impact your health, but "being a smoker" will.

None of this intended to cast aspersions on rock climbing in particular, just pointing out that a reasonable person, understanding independence of events and not falling prey to any fallacy, could reasonably make this decision based on their personal risk tolerance

Yes, or more accurately there is a frequency of climbing outings at which the marginal increase in satisfaction from an extra climbing is no longer sufficient to justify the increased risk.
I disagree, their analysis is perfectly correct.

The more frequently you take a risk, the greater the chance that risk materialises.

Parent wants to lower their overall risk, but doesn't want to stop climbing entirely. So they climb less often.

I don't know how you can make this claim objectively without knowing that individual's preferences.

If an individual decides their risk tolerance is that they will not accept a one in a million chance of injury from rock climbing, how is their analysis incorrect?

I think it the argument is to make a lifetime risk assessment, opposed to an individual event risk assessment.

If your tolerance is X% death/life, you can calculate the climbing frequency that falls below the threshold.

On the plus side, if you assume the events are independent, you can recalculate and increase the frequency after each climb.