[slibhb]

As I said, this is a "politicized drama". There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout. The vast majority of Americans (80%) of all skin color support these laws. Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

[slg]

>There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout... Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

That argument goes both ways:

There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter fraud... Describing them as "anti-voter fraud laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Plus the anti-voter id argument isn't even necessarily about turnout. Someone being unable to vote is still bad even if they weren't planning to actually vote. Many of these people are caught in a cycle of disenfranchisement. It isn't surprising that people who have historically had their voting rights infringed upon have decided to stop engaging with the system. One way to stop that cycle is to guarantee that these disenfranchised people will have the right to participate if they wish to do so.

[slibhb]

> There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter fraud... Describing them as "anti-voter fraud laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Agreed. Republicans talking about widespread "voter fraud" are liars.

[slg]

So why do you think these laws are “reasonable” to use your word if you admit that the primary reason people say we need them is a lie?

[slibhb]

Requiring citizens to produce a photo id to vote is reasonable regardless of lies certain people tell to push the idea.

Similarly, a carbon tax is reasonable even though proponents lie and claim climate change will kill us all.

[slg]

But you admit it doesn’t accomplish anything. It isn’t reasonable to create laws with no purpose.

[matteotom]

Laws shouldn't exist just because people think they'd be a good idea. There's also no evidence that voter ID laws prevent voter fraud, or even that voter fraud happens at any meaningful rate. Advocating for unnecessary restrictions without evidence is dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

[slibhb]

I'm not strongly in favor of voter id laws (the deep blue area I live in has them). I just think it's dishonest to refer to them as "voter suppression". And I agree that there's no evidence of substantial voter fraud.

[matteotom]

Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression. You might argue that it is ineffective voter suppression, but I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else.

[slibhb]

> Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression

As I said upthread, it's "literally true but dishonest". Barring children from voting is literally voter suppression but calling it that is stupid.

> I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else.

Reasonable people can disagree over whether showing an id to vote is "unnecessary". The fact remains that voter id laws are not unreasonable, not beyond the pale, most Americans support them, and this whole thing is a manufactured political drama.

[nwiswell]

> Barring children from voting is literally voter suppression

Actually, no, it's not. Maybe this is pedantic, but children are not, and have never been, putative voters and therefore are not being suppressed.

Minority groups less likely to have IDs are voters, however. 8% of white Americans do not have government photo ID, whereas 25% of African-American citizens do not[1].

[1] https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...

[kangaroozach]

There is no evidence that someone will ever try to rob your house. You should remove the lock on your door.

[Osiris]

There is plenty of evidence that people's houses get robbed.

Also, where I grew up we literally never locked our doors. Ever. Never got anything stolen.